Gall Bladder Quacks
Get Rid Of Gallstones.comBefore you even think about going through with this surgery, you need to know something that your doctor probably won’t tell you: gallbladder surgery increases your risk of bowel cancer! Why? Without your gallbladder, bile will drip continuously into your digestive system!
What complete nonsense.Bile “drips” continually into your digestive system anyway! Your liver produces bile. Some of it’s stored in the gall bladder. The rest of it’s continually being released directly from the liver into the common bile duct. From the common bile duct, the bile and pancreatic juices that get added a little further down all get dumped into the duodenum — the upper end of the small intestine.The illustration these yahoos have on their web site even SHOWS the hepatic ducts going from the liver into the common bile duct. I guess they just presume that people looking at their site won’t notice them.
If you haven’t noticed, our gallstone remedy not only rids your body of gallstones… it actually helps “recalibrate” your body so you feel young again! I can’t say enough about the benefits you’ll receive…
Snicker! Uh yeah… “recalibrate”… uh huh. But hey, if Joe Barton, Medical Author and Researcher, says it’s true — well, it MUST be! And Joe’s secret formula for passing gall stones is available for a mere $29.97!! Such a deal.Sigh… Take it from me, folks. Don’t screw around with gall stones. If you’ve got a blocked common bile duct — that can kill you. Dead. Permanently. See a real doctor and have your gall bladder out. I had surgery to have my gall bladder out on Wednesday. I won’t pretend it was pleasant. In essence, I have four stab wounds in my gut and, well, they hurt. I can tell you this, though. I am already noticing a big improvement in my body’s ability to handle normal food. My gall bladder was one sick little unit and it was hurting pretty much any time I ate anything at all. Now, that pain and constant nausea are gone. Hurray! Don’t screw around with gall stones. If your doctor says you should have your gall bladder out, do it.
Posted by RebeccaHartong on October 29, 2005 under Kooks
Joe Barton is apparently a really versatile guy — an expert on subjects from acid reflux to yeast infections.
http://www.bartonpublishing.com/
And about Joe himself? From his http://www.getridofkidneystones.com page we find this:
“#2 – How can I trust you? Who are you? My name is Joe Barton, and I am a medical researcher, consultant and a CPA (here’s a picture of me with two of my boys at the Mayo Clinic in July 2004) and we live in Luverne, Minnesota, USA. I am married and we have four boys under the age of 7. I am a man of integrity, active in my church, and I would not do anything unfair or unethical to anyone. I understand that it is hard to know what is real and what is not on the Internet, but all I can do is ask you to trust me. Remember also that I offer a full money-back guarantee if you are not satisfied with your purchase. If you would like to talk to me personally, you can call my cell phone between 8am and 8pm, Central Standard Time: XXX-XXX-XXXX [telephone number removed at request of Joe Barton since he's no longer publishing it on his web sites].”
Just trust him. He is “a man of integrity.” Yeah, I guess all CPAs wear white lab coats when they are selling gout remedies.
Joe Barton is a SUPER GENIUS. Not only can he help you with your gall bladder, kidney stones, gout, graves disease, acne, and yeast infections. He can rid your home of troublesome ladybugs, too!. (Only $29.97 for Joe’s ladybug removal secret!)
Apparently, Joe’s phenomenal success is due to his discovery of Traffic Secrets, an internet
scambusiness selling methods for improving web-based sales. Joe’s success story is featured on the Traffic Secrets site. According to Joe, “Traffic Secrets did more than just teach me multiple ways to generate traffic. The biggest benefit I received from TS was meeting other like-minded entrepreneurs, and developing profitable alliances and friendships with them.”Do you think there is any possible connection to eating veggie and gall bladder problems? I know that many people have been on that Nutri System diet and had to have their gall bladders removed. The diet is full of something that goes wrong in the bile ducts after a time. The diet consist of a lot of dried foods in packages that need to be reconsituted. Everything is measured and thought out for you and it is an easy diet to follow with starvation portions….. Wondering…….
Link: http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/mp30/nutrisystem.html
I think it’s probably got something to do with abruptly reducing the amount of fat in your diet. I had begun a more sensible diet back in August (not anything formal like NutriSystem — just MUCH lower in fat) as part of an overall “improve my health and lose some weight” thing.
I think a person’s body gets used to producing a certain amount of bile to handle a certain amount of dietary fat and, when you suddenly reduce the fat, there’s a bunch of bile just sitting around with nothing to do. The bile gets bored and angry and forms stones and the next thing you know…
A kind email correspondent sent this interesting list of web sites run by Joe Barton. I may need to do a little expose sort of post on all this one of these days. Anyway, read and marvel. The one that really caught my attention is “eschatologyonline.com” — all he’s got on it is “Coming Soon!” Hmmm…..
URL Date
http://www.bartonpublishing.com/
http://www-arthritis.com/
http://www.cholesterolsecrets.com/ Jan 3, 2005
http://www.getridofkidneystones.com/
http://www.getridofgallstones.com/ May 26. 2004
http://www.cureyourgout.com/ May 4, 2005
http://www-lymedisease.com/
http://www-gravesdisease.com/
http://www-thyroid.com/
http://www.utireport.com/ Sept 22, 2004
http://www.yeastinfectionrelief.com/
http://www.apneacure.com/ May 25, 2005
http://www.getoutgout.com/ May 5, 2005
http://www.outwithgout.com/ May 4, 2005
http://www.simpleibscure.com/ Feb 25, 2005
http://www.eschatologyonline.com/ Apr. 14, 2004
http://www.getridofanything.com/
http://www.sorethroatcure.com/
http://www.getridofladybugs.com/ Mar 2, 2004
http://www.www-boxelderbugs.com/ Mar. 14, 2005
http://www.getridofanything.com/gnats/ Apr. 2 ,2004
http://www.refluxremedy.com/ Nov 29, 2004
[...] Apparently Joe doesn’t like the post I made last October about his Get Rid of Gallstones.com web site. He says it’s “slanderous”. (Yes, yes… I know. He meant “libelous”, okay? He’s a “medical author and researcher”, after all, not a lawyer.) Go here to read my original post. Now I ask you friends, do you see anything libelous in that? [...]
[...] Things just keep getting more interesting. Joe has sent me a couple more emails requesting that I remove my post Gall Bladder Quacks, claiming that I’ve defamed him by referring to him as a “quack”. His emails have prompted me to take a closer look at his many online businesses. [...]
Hi – if you want to call me a “quack” for giving people alternative, natural home remedies to improve their health through diet and lifestyle changes, go right ahead.
The simple fact is our reports are doctor approved and proven to work for many (not all) of our customers (and we refund anyone for any reason if they’re not 100% satisfied).
We always tell our customers that we are not doctors, and we always suggest people use our reports in conjunction with the supervision of their licensed health care providers.
Think about this… if you had acid reflux, would you rather spend $50/month on Nexium, Prevacid, or another drug… or eat 1/2 of an apple (and a few other natural foods that help) – to find total relief?
99 out of 100 people would prefer the natural “apple remedy” instead of drugs – which have been proven to be harmful in the long term (which is why they have so many warnings and side effects).
I’m not hiding anything. I’m providing people with safe, natural alternative remedies that REALLY WORK!
Our testimonials are proof.
Thanks for your help,
Joe
Oh please. “Testimonials” are an advertising technique, and “proof” of nothing. I could give you 100 “testimonials” claiming that the flying pink unicorn in my bathroom has magical powers to cure hangnails.
I had 1000 hangnails cured by the flying pink unicorn in only 3 1/2 days!
Thank you, flying pink unicorn!
— Debbie R.
Luverne, MN
I only came across this exchange while looking up info on gallstones after my was diagnosed. So I have know opimion either way.
IF ONLY… if only you had tried Mr Bartons cure before you went to the knifeman. Would have given you so much more credability.
FYI the pictures and info Joe has on his web page about gallstones is from the National Digestive Diseases Clearinghouse webpage word for word & picture http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/gallstones/ Now why would he need to steal other peoples info instead of writing his own?????
Thanks for the tip, Cheryl. It certainly is questionable that he’s using their text and picture without even giving them credit.
Maybe some good citizen should alert the NIH to this copyright infringement….
Could this be passed on to Joe Barton? I’ve been taking allopurinol (300mg) every day for 22 years and gout attacks have not returned once. I have not altered my diet or taken anything else. I have not had no single side effect from allopurinol. Most doctors I ask about it state that it is one of the most benign drugs around. I completely agree. These doctors have been everything from Air Force flight surgeons to VA doctors. Allopurinol made it possible to remain on flying status. I do not know if Joe Barton is is a quack, but he’s obviously in the business, and does a disservice to medicines that actually work..
Hi Douglas! I’m glad to hear the allopurinol is working for you. I don’t think Barton is reading my blog regularly anymore but he may check in from time to time… If nothing else, you can be assured that LOTS of other people will see your comment. I probably get at least 5 or 6 hits a day from people who were googling “Joe Barton” or one of his “remedies”.
Thank You For Your Site.Itwas exactly what i was looking for .
I’m always curious when I see another net-quack hawking some bogus b.s.
I reseaerched one guy with a baldness cure, and he also owned web sites selling hotel reservations, and he was also operating a tallent agency. Anything for a buck!
So have some of you read any of Barton’s reports? What are his big cures?
Hey a quarter ounce of lead applied at supersonic speed to the temple will conclude just about any problem…. Doctors claim lead is toxic… How can it be toxic and so effective at the same time?
In the 20′s you could buy a cure for just about anything, and some were effective. Effective at shortening your life and causing horrible pain and disfigurement, such as highly radioactive water sold in glass bottles that are still too hot to handle safely from the residue left from what was in the bottle 80 years ago.
In any event, ever since I was a kid I got a kick out of reading the stupid things people call medicine…
So spill it, what wonderful cures has Joe Barton blessed medical science with? Bicarbinate of soda for acid reflux?
You know, a mixture of hydric acid, Hydronium Hydroxide and dihydrogen monoxide, can kill a healthy adult in 4 minutes, but properly prepared and orally administered by a trained professional can result in the dramatic extension of life… In fact, a recent study has shown that 100% of all people that live past 100 appear to injest a similar mixture daily without even knowing it. Despite the potentially fatal effects of this chemical, people over 100 do not appear to be able to live without it! For only $24.95 I will send you a 12 page report detailing this important research, and I will train you how to properly administer it in a manner to prolong your life. For another $10, I will even include a 16.9 ounce sample of this amaizing elixer. Or if you prefer, I can send you a 32ounce economy size for only $17.99, a considerable savngs.
If you have already tried my product, but wish keeping a supply on-hand was easier, you can sign up to have us automatically ship a new batch to your door every month, at a 10% discount! But hurry, supplies are limited, so order now!
Beware, the market is full of inferior products, and cheap knock-offs that have nothing in them but plain water! Don’t get ripped off, only buy from a trusted supplier. Upon request I will provide a lab report showing the proper ratio of ingredients is used in our product.
New! We now have a certified organic version of the product! It costs more, but it is really worth it for the enhanced results you only get from certified organic product.
The organic 16.9 ounce size is 34.95, and the 32 ounce is $65. Hurry, supplies are limited, order yours today!
Oh, I forgot to include the material safety data sheet for my medication… You can read it at:
http://www.dhmo.org/msdsdhmo.html
Heh…funny.
I’ve never actually seen any of Joe’s “reports”. I think I remember reading somewhere that he has people sign some sort of “non-disclosure” agreement when they buy one.
Yeah, I’m guessing most people that find this blog never get around to buying the reports… They already don’t believe, that is why they are here.
Your blog performs a valuable service!
I found your site after finding Joe Barton’s. As I write this, my left foot is pained from gout, so I did an internet seach on the disease.
Your site is interesting reading. I had serious doubts about Joe Barton’s claims. Those doubts are now certainties
I’ll stick with Iburprofen for the pain and avoiding the foods that aggravate it (I indulged a few days ago, which brought on this attack).
Interesting that Joe has so many sites. Also interesting that he has used the reports and photos of others. I don’t know if these other sources are copyrighted. If so, his member could be in a wringer.
There is a common falsehood that anyhthing posted on the internet is fair game. That is, it has lost its right to copyright protection because it’s gone “public.”
This is totally untrue. A couple of years ago I had someone steal something I’d written and post from one message board to another. A quick note to the host of the message board, and the thief, got it removed.
Anyway, I enjoyed stumbling across your blog. Keep up the good work.
Hi Gatofeo! Thanks for the kind words. Good luck with that gout — I’ve heard it can be painful. I think there are drugs a doctor can prescribe that can help with it, too, if it gets too bad.
Interesting reading!…
I’m suffering badly with gout at the moment and came upon your site whilst doing a “cureyourgout.com scam” search!
I’m prompted to write in response to the last entry from “Gatofeo” – I spent a very painful night (no sleep) due to taking a strong Ibuprofen. I have since been told by my doctor that although Ibuprofen is known as an anti-inflammatory, it can also excacerbate the gout! Take care!!
Now back to the search for the miracle cure…
Hey Dave — sorry to hear about your painful night! If you haven’t already done so, ask a doctor about trying some allopurinol. I’m told it really works well for a lot of people.
Thank Goodness for your Fact Check for Quacks!!
This Joe guy IS cruel!! I almost fell for it until I read that Joe is claiming to be GOD!!! He has reports for all deadly diseases!
YaYa! all that testimonials! A big B.S. to you, Joe!!
Cheers and regards!
That’s a shame, i was hoping Joe was going to cure my reflux problem..have to keep going with Prilosec then….mind you I’m eating an apple a day as it is, and that’s not working
Thanks for the insight. This was just what I was looking for!
Figures…..an apple a day, etc. not even original!
Sharon
I am sure there is a lot of junk cures out there but I think you need to be fair here.
I have no connection with Barton but did buy his getridofkidneystones publication and after using it my kidney stones are gone. Maybe they would have disappeared anyways, who knows, but the doctor was proposing treatment and had specifically told me that it was unlikely they would go themselves due to their position or something so I think there is a good chance it worked.
I understand that these alternative therapies are not proven but that does not mean that they do not work. It just means that you have less assurance that they work but in this case it may have.
One other point. His cure involves consuming certain foods that one might consume anyways although I virtually never consume one of them. My brother, however, consumes them on a regular basis and has never had kidney stones.
I am sorry not to put my real name or email address but don’t feel like sharing my medical history with the entire world and don’t want to get spammed.
Hello Anonymous! I understand completely about not wanting to put your real name on your comment. No problem. But… since you’re being anonymous, how about telling us what these “certain foods” are?
Well, I don’t think its really fair to him to provide that information to others who have not purchased the material since that is what he is selling.
If Barton’s “cure” had involved sleeping with some kind of talisman under your pillow for three nights before performing a special dance (naked!) under a full moon — would you still think there was a “good chance” his “cure” had resulted in your improved condition?
Real doctors and real scientists test their methods under controlled conditions. They publish their results in journals that anyone can read (for free) at their nearest big university library.
I hope your kidney stone problems are over for good. I’ve had kidney stones so, believe me, I can appreciate how painful they are. I “cured” my kidney stone condition simply remembering to drink lots of water when I’m exercising and sweating a lot.
And you can have that “cure” for free.
His material is not represented as scientific so to criticize it as being unscientific is not right. I suggest you read his web site carefully. Its represented as what it is — a home remedy. He does not claim that there is scientific evidence, studies, etc. He does claim that 80% of his customers do get benefit but given that I am one of the 80% that very well may be the truth. At any rate, lack of evidence and lack of benefit are not the same.
Obviously there is a lot of junk out there but lets keep things in perspective. Maybe there are some worthwhile items among the dross.
Oh, absolutely — there’s always the possibility that what Joe sells may be worthwhile. But without any actual proof of that, I’d certainly not be willing to put MY health on the line. You say you’re “one of the 80%” who benefited from Joe’s home remedy, but in fact there’s absolutely no proof that 80% of his customers benefit. And there’s no proof that your improvement had anything whatsoever to do with following Joe’s advice.
I would just like to correct two elements of your statement. 1. I would not characterize my statements as definitively claiming that the home remedy worked but only that it “may” have worked. Obviously there is no way to know 100% that the home remedy and not some other cause was the reason the kidney stones are no longer there. 2. I think his home remedy is pretty benign and don’t see a huge downside to it and definitely would not characterize it as putting one’s “health on the line”. The treatment only involves consuming foods you might have otherwise consumed anyways and does not preclude taking other steps as well. Perhaps what you meant was that using unproven remedies is, in general, a strategy that can compromise your health. I think its personal and each person has to weight the benefits and risks for themself.
Rebecca:
Since you have the comments from “Anonymous” have a network person tak a look at it and see where it came from. I bet it may surprise you. Do you think it may be connected with snake oil sales people? I wonder!
Hi Don.. could be related to Barton. Hard to say for sure. The anonymous post came through Golden Triangle Online — a Canadian company. “Dr. Martin Stone”, the naturopath who collaborates with “Joe Barton” is supposedly in Canada. Who knows… it’s really difficult to know for sure who these people really are or where they’re really at.
Joe they don’t really care if your remedy is good. You have been addressing the wrong issue. Their issue with you is that you are Christian. These may be lesbians, witches, or the major anti-Christian group whom we are not permitted to name.
I’ve been contemplating/researching Barton’s kidney stone remedy. I’ve been passing smaller ones for about 15 years. Now I have a 6mm stone and a 1cm stone stuck in my left eurator… I also have a bigger one still in my kidney. My right kidney has stones as well. I have been to the emergency room and currently have a stent in my left eurator…I am scheduled for at least 2 shockwave treatments; and if successful, I will have another surgery to remove the stent. I figure I’m in for 20,000 already (less my insurance obligation)… I am going to order and try Barton’s recipe.. What is $39.00 nowadays? Also, if it works, I will share all my info
Hi Ed — good luck with those stones. Man… that’s got to be unpleasant. I hope you’ll share your experience with us even if Barton’s recipe doesn’t work.
I’m actually ashamed to say that I know Joe. I went to GetRidOfAnything.Com and found that Joe can will away warts and bugs! I don’t know how anyone with any ethics or concsious can justify pushing this new age snake oil to anyone! It is good to have sites exposing these con websites. Thanks
Wow! I found all this stuff while I was searching about Joe Barton. Wow!!! I have to say that any person who believes that standard medicine works is SERIOUSLY messed up in the head. Sorry, but the kickbacks of drug companies to Doctors, and the unsafe Meds that get forced on the populace, prove that Doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death. If you want to be healthy, you heal yourself!
Back to Joe, it sounds like no one here knows much either, except one guy who used his plan and got well. Ignorance is no justification to attack Joe. Also, don’t attack the messenger if you don’t know the message. I doubt Joe does anything but take others health info and sell it, so his stuff is probably very good. Try and disprove someone before you call him a quack.
To me a real quack is someone who can legally prescribe psychotropic drugs to a little kid. No, that is worse than a quack.
Why am I posting here, and why should you not hate me? Well, I got myself super unhealthy years ago ( young fat guy ) and Doctors wanted to give me drugs, I refused, and changed my diet, and took supplements, and lost 70 pounds, and the Doctors couldn’t figure it out! They don’t know how to get people healthy, they just treat symptoms. So, if a person is willing to change to get healthy, and use a plan by Joe, or one that is free online, they don’t need poisons ( drugs ) to try and hide symptoms. THE BODY WILL HEAL ITSELF!!!
Go here for free info : http://www.Mercola.com, http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com, http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com also there are others as well.
Oh yeah, Rebecca, sorry I didn’t know you earlier, but the Mercola web site has INCREDIBLE info on how to naturally treat the gall bladder. So, if anyone has gall bladder issues, try and prove Mercola’s web site wrong. Very hard to do, and his info is free!!!
Peace, and just say no to drugs ( and ignorance!
Hi there
What a great site, I found it after reading Joe Bartons claims of healing with eating the mysterious 3 ingredients you can buy at a grocery store. Lets say I have been suffering with horrible reflux for the past 5 yrs and I eat apples, drink apple cider vinegar and still have trouble. I doubt his claims are true and if he really wanted to help us out he would just come out and tell everyone all about it. Right? But NOO it will cost yah. No doubt this guy is crooked. Save your money folks!!!
Found this site after stumbling on Joe Barton’s quack site. I’ll save all the kidney stone sufferers $39: the “secret ingredients” in that “cure” are Coca-Cola and asparagus, followed by plenty of water. (No, I’m not silly enough to pay for that; I did some thorough searching until I found someone else who spilled the beans.)
Meanwhile, the Mayo Clinic says to avoid colas, sugar, etc. They DO suggest plenty of water, which is probably the only factor in Barton’s “cure” that works.
The thing I hate the most about sites like his is the fake sympathy for sufferers of whatever ailment pains them. The message becomes: “I understand how painful this is… but I’ll make a quick buck off of your pain instead of just telling you how to ‘cure’ it.” What a jerk.
hello to all ,lets search and thanks to joe we are searching, the truth is not some times first seen,but to seek is to find,all in all we must remain kind. for in sickness and in health is it not until death do we part!
Why doesn’t someone just come clean with the reflux “mystery” cure and not allow this guy to make 39 bucks on the suffering, mental and physical, of people who are really seeking a solution to their health problem. To not expose this huckersterism is in itself unethical.
I tend to agree with you, Jim.
This Joe website is scam guys!! I had acid reflux problem. i paid money but not received any report…I am gonna take further action now against this website…..
Good luck with that. Actually — while I strongly suspect Joe’s acid reflux “cure” is stuff you could figure out pretty easily on your own through reading online and applying common sense — my impression has been that he does send out his “reports” when people give him money. If you haven’t already done so, you might try emailing him directly at his Barton Publishing web site.
It’s been awhile since I’ve posted here… it’s nice to know people care so much about me!
For those of you who despise the fact that we sell our reports for around $30, I wonder if you realize that we pay a lot of money in advertising so we can reach people like you who suffer from these different health problems…
We compete against multi-million dollar drug companies to try and show people a cheaper, safer, natural alternative.
If that offends you, I apologize.
The alternative to charging for our reports would be to fill our pages with annoying ads and popups that ask you to “click here” everywhere you look – and most likely, those ads would be paid for by the pharmaceutical companies.
Our reports offer step-by-step, straight-to-the-point information, without annoying ads to sort through and be confused by.
I realize I’m probably not going to convert any skeptics with this information, but those are the facts.
To those of you who have ordered our reports and tried our remedies – thank you! I appreciate your posts here, too.
If you’d like to see one of our new reports that we just released, please visit http://www.bloodpressurenormalized.com
It’s amazing how much doctors DON’T know about simple, natural health choices – I just wish they wouldn’t be so eager to prescribe drugs, especially those with harmful side effects (which includes about 95% of all prescribed drugs now, unfortunately).
Joe
p.s. Rebecca, if you’d like a copy of one of my reports for free, to verify the high quality contents, send me an email.
p.p.s. If anyone has ordered a report from us and hasn’t received it (we realize computers do weird things sometimes), simply email our customer support department – support (at) bartonpublishing.com
My daughter had a UTI (urinary tract infection) and tries to avoid antibiotics and she is allergic to sulfa drugs. She got a thing from the Barton site, followed the directions and said it stopped the UTI in its tracks. It was a bad infection that came on her fast, so just drinking a lot of water and some cranberry juice wasn’t going to do it.
So I don’t know if he’s a bit “too good to be true” and I’m not fond of the write ups on his sites, but my daughter swears by the one she got.
I found this (your gallbladder quack) site while looking for info on the arthritis.com portion of Barton’s sites. I trust a lot of home remedies, but I like to check up on things too. Funny that this is the only site which came up with negative comments about Barton, and mostly from people who have not tried any of the remedies his sites recommend.
How did you find a connection between him and the EschatologyOnline site?
I tend to agree with his basic premise: that pharmaceutical companies are ruthless in their pursuit of profit. They are doctors’ PRIMARY education in what drugs are “effective” for various things. The doctors believe them.
Consider the treatment of hypothyroidism. Dessicated thyroid is very effective in managing the disease (symptoms are high cholesterol, fatigue, joint aches, hair loss, weight gain, depression, etc). Most endocrinologists insist on treating with ineffective (for MANY) T4-only medications.
People with hypothyroidism are CASH COWS for the pharmaceuticals! It is in the pharm co’s best interest to contrive the most convincing sounding “data” to keep docs prescribing “sort of effective” meds with various side-effects…. and look at what are so “popular” today: anti-depressants, cholesterol lowering drugs, arthritis drugs (NSAIDS), etc etc.
A southern comedian once said: “What will the preachers do if the devil gets saved??!!”
Don’t believe everything that *anyone* tells you. Find out as much as you can and make an educated choice.
“Funny that this is the only site which came up with negative comments about Barton, and mostly from people who have not tried any of the remedies his sites recommend.”
I suspect that’s because most people are either unaware of Joe Barton and his vast empire of home remedy reports or they simply don’t find him interesting enough to discuss. Joe’s remedies generate the same level of concern as those old folks who say you can cure warts by kissing a toad. They’re quaint and, while you know it’s nonsense, it’s generally not worth making a big deal out of.
“How did you find a connection between him and the EschatologyOnline site?”
An anonymous person (anonymous to me) had done a little investigating into all the domains owned by Joe Barton. The eschatology site was among them.
I’m not familiar with the treatments for hypothyroidism, but there certainly can’t be much argument that the pharmaceutical companies don’t always do business in a manner that’s best for sick people. Nevertheless, there can also be no argument that millions of people have benefited from the drugs developed by pharmaceutical company researchers.
Either way, I completely agree with you that people should always learn as much as they can about their condition so they can choose the treatment that’s right for them.
Glad to hear your daughter’s UTI was quickly resolved.
Hm. For the longest time the eschatologyonline.com site was empty. What’s on there now doesn’t look like Joe Barton’s usual stuff. It may be that his domain registration expired and someone else has picked it up.
well, all i can say, is that if it’s not dangerous why not try it? thirty or forty dollars is a lot cheaper than the prescription drugs; some of which doctors will tell you need to be taken for the rest of your life. i have educated myself about eating the right way, about natural remedies and supplements. some things have worked, some haven’t, but i don’t have any horrific drug induced illness or side effect to share with you either. i am continuing to become healthier everyday, after some years i have realized that most of our society doesn’t even know the basics of eating right which is pretty sad.
by the way, my husband and i are both in our fifties and we have found that a great way to eliminate acid indigestion is to take a little RAW apple cider vinegar befor eating or by taking digestive enzymes. we like american health gestazyme. we have absolutely no problem with heartburn, acid reflux, acid indigestion, or whatever else you want to call it.
from reading the comments on this website, of which i have read over 95%; an old saying comes to mind– “it doesn’t matter what the truth is, a person will believe what they want to believe.” so SAD, too bad, oh well.
i will be going to joe barton’s website now to order the gallbladder flush instructions, plus three other reports which sound quite interesting. i’m really quite excited, i love learning about things that can help to heal and nourish the body without any harmful side effects.
p.s. i don’t know joe barton and i also don’t know anyone who knows him.
well, all i can say, is that if it’s not dangerous why not try it? thirty or forty dollars is a lot cheaper than the prescription drugs; some of which doctors will tell you need to be taken for the rest of your life.
To that, all I can say is, why spend thirty or forty dollars on something that’s completely ineffective? I’m not saying Joe’s “remedies” are necessarily ineffective but — seeing as how he won’t divulge what the remedies are unless he’s paid and taking into consideration that no actual study has apparently been done to determine whether Joe’s remedies actually work — giving him your money is pretty much nothing more than wishful thinking. I don’t know about you, but when it comes to my health I prefer to rely on something more concrete.
It is certainly true that a lot of people don’t eat very well. People eat FAR too much fat and sugar and not early enough whole grains, fruits, and vegetables.
Thanks for sharing your home remedy for indigestion. Some people seem to have trouble with it no matter what or when they eat. For me, the solution was to just not eat right before going to bed! Since I changed my dinner time to earlier in the evening, indigestion hasn’t been a problem anymore. I’m otherwise lucky to have been blessed with a stomach that can handle pretty much any level of spiciness without difficulty.
from reading the comments on this website, of which i have read over 95%; an old saying comes to mind– “it doesn’t matter what the truth is, a person will believe what they want to believe.” so SAD, too bad, oh well.
It’s funny that you should write that because it’s pretty much my own opinion about Joe’s remedies. Without real scientific studies to determine whether Joe’s remedies actually work, there’s NO WAY to know what the truth about them is. But still, people will believe in them anyway! And that is sad — especially when people are avoiding conventional medical treatment that could fix their problem for good.
Hello Rebecca, I wanted to thank you for this blog post, which I found googling Joe Barton’s name. I came across his site while looking for home gout remedies, and with the pain I was in, even his overpriced ebook didn’t seem like a bad idea. I was about 30 seconds away from ordering when I thought about it, and then did a search for his name along with keywords like “quack”. Sure enough, I came across this fascinating back and forth between you, Barton, and a bunch of anonymous people who extoll the virtues of his home remedy ebooks. After reading everything, I can see that money spent on an ebook would have been just as effective as rubbing two twenty dollar bills on my hurting foot while chanting “e pluribus unum” over and over with incense lit (it has to be cherry incense, though, or it doesn’t work). Thanks for saving me that money!
I really want to help my mother-in-law with her stone in her kidney. She can’t be operated on and just has to have pain management. I had my hope up that I could find a cheap easy cure. I was going to get her to try the coke, asparagus and water thing – comment 43. I then realized that that couldn’t be the secret ingredience because it was supposed to be safe for diabetics. So what now? Can it be as easy as taking something to dissolve the stone, and if so, why don’t doctors suggest it, or why haven’t drug companies got onto the same idea?
Hi Jenny! I’m thinking the reason doctors aren’t suggesting these “easy” cures is because they DON’T WORK.
You might ask your mother-in-law’s doctor about the possibility of “extracorporeal shockwave lithotripsy” for treatment of her kidney stone. This is a non-surgical technique where sound waves are used to break up the stone.
THANK you Rebecca!!! I, too am bothered by gatrointestinal problems and decided to google some info on this Joe Barton after reading his site. My “instincts” were correct, (as they ALWAYS are) and money is hard to come by theses days and I saved $39! His site is like reading another site entited “Simple Living” or something to that effect… for only X amount of dollars, you too can be cured or whatever it is they are selling.
One lady on here mentioned some UTI concerns. There is a wonderful product out called “Clear Tract”…google it. I’ve used it since it first came out and now there seems to be copies…but somehow “some” of those “copies” just aren’t the same. But it DEFINITELY works!
Again…THANK you Rebecca for your site!!!!!
I thought Joe was going to let us read one of his reports as stated in #49 but alas it was another ad for $34. Same old Joe I guess.
[...] Gall Bladder Quacks World’s Leading Sore Throat Expert Sends Me Threatening Email! Joe Barton Continues to Astound [...]
That’s exactly what you are saying.
Doctors visits, prescriptions, hospital stays, and medical procedures can run into the tens of thousands and even into hundreds of thousands of dollars. And these things sometimes are ineffective.
Look, this guy’s reports are only around $30. And you can get a refund if they don’t work for you. Try asking a doctor or hospital for your money back when you aren’t satisfied with your treatment. They’ll most likely send you to the nearest mental facility.
You shouldn’t always just blindly put your trust in doctors, even though they have published in some journal. Rebecca, you said,
Well, the 4 most dangerous words in the English language are “Hey, you’re the doctor.” It’s been mentioned here in this thread before, and I’ll bring it up again. Doctors aren’t always right.
- People have died because they took pills prescribed by doctors.
- Doctors have been known to amputate the wrong limbs.
- Some doctors even smoke cigarettes!
There’s no problem in investing in home remedy reports when you are looking to help yourself with a medical issue. It is a BIG problem to just blindly follow a doctors recommendations (because he has published a study in a medical journal) without doing research yourself.
Actually, Vik — No, that’s not what I was saying — and if you’d quoted me in context that might have been more apparent to anyone reading your comment here.
Say what you will about the potential ineffectiveness of treatment from a real doctor, at least the doctor will tell you ahead of time what you’re going to be buying — giving you the opportunity to investigate the treatment yourself before paying for it. It’s naive to believe there’s any real value in these “home remedies” Joe is selling. If these remedies worked, everyone would know about them because everyone would be using them all the time. There’d have been no need for doctors to ever remove gall bladders if all you had to do was eat asparagus and drink coke (or whatever the hell Joe’s “remedy” for gall stones is.)
Hi, Rebecca. I stumbled upon your site when I was trying to search about kidney stones. I am suspicious about Joe Barton’s solution, BUT I am very curious as well. I am usually sceptical about “too good to be true” solutions, but I also tend to think that if there’s no other way (my doctor is saying that it will just pass naturally (with p a lot of pain of course) if it even does. This was why I was thinking of purchasing the report until I saw your site.
The only questions I have for you is that since you sound like you actually care about people being scammed by “quacks,” why don’t you purchase the report, publish the “solution” here, and let people try it for themselves for free, if they want to.
You would save a lot of people from losing $40 this way, including me, and you may also help a lot of people if the “solution” turns out effective. So it’s a win-win situation for your readers either way.
I would like to be the first one to say thank you if you decide to this!
Win-win for readers, perhaps — but it’s a “lose 40 bucks” situation for me either way!
“Win-win for readers, perhaps — but it’s a “lose 40 bucks” situation for me either way!”
Isn’t it worth $40 to help your readers, AND piss the hell out of Joe Bartonjust by divulging his “secret solution”? It just seems to me that this whole thread is about saving people from losing $40 dollars to “quacks” like Joe Barton, so I just thought you’d care enough. I’m sorry if I overestimated you. Still, thanks for this site. It saved me $40 dollars for sure =)
Actually, I have the impression that when you buy Joe’s stuff you agree to a “terms of use” kind of deal wherein you promise to not divulge his secrets. I may be mistaken about that but I’m pretty sure I read it somewhere and, as much as I may suspect Joe’s “treatments” are pretty much nonsense, I’m not all that anxious to get into an actual legal pissing match over it.
But, hey… how about YOU spend the 40 bucks on his report and come back here to tell us about it?
No?
Can’t say I blame you.
Hi Rebecca,
Great stuff on this site. I stumbled in after I Googled Joe Barton’s name. Joe is just doing the same thing thousands of other internet marketers are doing. He is selling information, namely, How to Reports. I’d be willing to bet some of the info may be helpful. Unfortunately, the unsuspecting person looking for a cure can only be assured of one thing. The key to Joe’s success is how many reports he sells and not how many people are cured. Let’s face it, information sells!
Having had a UTI for ten weeks, I would be happy to pay Mr. Barton for his “Guaranteed” remedy. However, I make it a practice never to put my credit card number on the internet, and there is NO WAY to contact him, no mailing address, no telephone number. How would one get a refund if it didn’t work?
Also, for gall stones: if they are not too big and not too many, you can “flush” them with olive oil. I’ve done it.
A final note – if you plan to take CIPRO for a UTI, make sure you have a Medical Power of Attorney assigned and your financial house in order, not to mention telling everyone you love that you love them.
Hi, I’m from Aussieland (lots of people suffer from kidney stones here too!) and thought some of the contributors to this site might want to check out the following website: http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Kidney/index.htm
Thanks Carl! I still think most of these “cures” are probably worthless, but at least now people can see what they are without having to send “Joe Barton” any money.
Thanks for all the info and the posts. I was doing research on hypothyroidism, and stumbled unto this guy. For a second I thought, “Wow, could it be true?”. And so the checkups began. It’s a habit of mine to always do some background checks on anything that seems ‘too good” to be true. And boy did this ring some alarms! Like investing in shares, housing or anything, if it sounds too good to be true, IT PROBABLY IS!!
There are many articles out there, but all happen to be written by him or sound like him. The style and form are all too similar and they tend to be in blog sites or azines. If these ‘remedies’ were such a ‘wonderful’ thing, why have we not heard it on other forms of media? Nowadays anything that has that much potential to do so much good is picked up by the media and spread around like there is no tomorrow.
Right! Because the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know and secretly control the media. Again, if he was SUCH a miracle worker, why hasn’t he been on Oprah or even the local news? There are at least a dozen ‘financial’ gurus out there selling their investment miracles. They are all doing the rounds and making millions.
SO, if you have a CURE for something that affects MILLIONS of people, WHY not take global?? Just seems a little sketchy to me.
Then again, “A fool and his money are easily parted”.
Thanks again,
Cheers!
Ruth (Melbourne, AUSTRALIA)
I don’t know anything about Joe or his brand of remedy, but for about 20 years now I have learned about and practiced many home remedies with amazing results. I have successfully dissolved kidney stones and passed gallstones painlessly as well. There is certainly a time and place for emergency medical care. However, folks need to take more responsibility for their health and not rely on their doctor’s one-sided answers for everything. The bottom line up front is that when it comes to health, most people are just too fat, sluggish, lazy, and mentally weak to get off their bums and learn about how their bodies really work. They are slaves to a healthcare industry that they bash 99% of the time, then run to when they don’t want to be accountable for what they have or haven’t done for themselves. I think there is another word for that. Maybe Joe is one of those self cure quacks that takes advantage of everyone. You are no better – just on the other side of the spectrum. I imagine your iconic depiction to be fairly accurate. Can’t wait to hear what you have to say.
Perhaps you’d like to share your “home remedies” with the many people who visit this site looking for that kind of information.
As for my “iconic depiction” — I’m actually a 3-dimensional being, so it’s not especially accurate in that regard. If you want to satisfy your curiosity about my real-life appearance, there’s a video of me playing alto flute on my Flutes of Fairfax web site.
Never indicated that I had a curiosity about your real-life appearance, but if that helps you smile, I’ll indulge you. Perhaps I should have written – I imagine your iconic depiction to be fairly accurate of your disposition….angry, bitter, and skeptical. Sorry about the confusion.
Wow… “angry, bitter, and skeptical”. You got all that from a little drawing on a web site? Heh, heh… well, you got the skeptical part right on. But I’m afraid you’re off the mark when it comes to angry and bitter.
Whatever. Have you given any thought to my suggestion that you post your home remedies for kidney and gall stones here so others can benefit from them?
I think that all these negative comments about Joe Barton, based upon people who have never tried what he’s selling, are ridiculous.
It’s obvious that he’s done some research, and gives you some techniques that work for a lot of different things. He also is good at internet marketing. I wish I had his skill in that too.
I may buy his report, and I’m sure there’s a lot of valuable information in it. But, I won’t come back here and tell you what it is. I’m so sick of the cynicism that has infected this world, and especially, this country.
In fact, just reading the free material that Joe has posted in ezines and articles on the web has helped me understand my urinary tract infection, and begin to heal it myself without even buying his report. I never met Joe Barton, but I like him a whole lot more than anyone else who I’ve seen posting a comment here. At least he’s trying to help people. Knowledge is power, and if you go around putting everything down, you’ll never get anywhere. You all should be more open when someone is trying to give you a gift.
Heh…”gift”??
Joe’s not giving any gifts, honey. He charges for his reports.
I don’t know anything about Joe Barton or his treatment, but Rebecca, you aren’t being objective at all about this guy. You clearly have an ax to grind, and you are being completely uncritical of the medical establishment.
Maybe his treatment is quackery, who knows. But you can’t expose a quack by being a crank yourself.
Can you point to something specific that I’ve written where you think I’m not being objective? I believe I’ve been entirely fair about Joe’s whole spiel. Earlier on I wrote, and it continues to be my position on all of this:
Well Rebecca, maybe the time for talk is past. Maybe, in the interests of science, you should just pay the damn $39 bucks and stop speculating.
Is your credibility worth $39?
Get the thing, then when you have it, find someone who can analyze it or speak authoritatively about it.
In other words, do the hard work – don’t just criticize.
When you’ve done that, if it’s truly worthless, then you will be vindicated. Happy! But if you are wrong, and his treatment works, you may have to eat a bit of crow. But you will be doing us all a service, by confirming that there is indeed a cheap and easy alternative to getting a dangerous and expensive operation. Also happy!
BTW, for the record, if his treatment works, it doesn’t matter what his personal religious beliefs are, or if he wears a chicken suit to bed or whatever. I wouldn’t care if he was an emissary of Satan himself if his gallbladder treatment worked. And neither should you.
It especially doesn’t matter that he charges for his product. It only matters when he charges for something that manifestly doesn’t work, and you haven’t proven that yet.
And finally, I’m not sticking up for him personally, I’m sticking up for what is right and fair, irrespective of who may be involved. I’m striking a blow against crankiness.
No, no, no… that’s not how science works and, like any rational person, I’m guided by the scientific method whenever someone makes a claim about something in the natural world.
It’s not up to me to prove that Joe’s remedies don’t work. It’s up to Joe to prove that they do work.
Hint: anecdotes posted on his web sites aren’t proof.
Sure, if Joe were to provide any kind of proof that his “cures” work, he’d in essence be “giving them away”. Boo hoo. That’s the whine of every huckster and snake oil salesman who ever lived.
It’s amazing, isn’t it?, how REAL medical researchers manage to make a living while still publishing their findings in journals where anyone who’s interested can read them.
I see your credibility *isn’t* worth $39.
Time-waster.
What you don’t appear to understand, Linda, is that my credibility isn’t at issue here. I’ve got nothing to prove. (Contrary to what you seem to think, I’ve never said Joe’s “cures” don’t work. What I’ve repeatedly said — and will say again — is that it’s foolish for anyone to spend their money on something without having some way of knowing in advance whether what they’re getting has an value. If you’re seeking treatment from a real doctor, you can read ALL about her proposed treatment BEFORE you spend any money on it. If you don’t believe me, just spend some time over at WebMD.
I’ve got nothing to prove so it’s kind of silly that you should think my “credibility” is somehow at stake in all this.
I have been in agony for 4 hours, and am still in pain from a kidney that wants to go and I cannot make it. If Woolworths were open I would go down and eat a couple of kilos of aspargus and wash it with a bottle of Coke on the spot. And then continue to drink another couple of litres of water.
I have been crawling on the floor moaning like a loon praying for this terrible loin to groin pain to just go.
$39 bucks would be cheap.
By the way Rebecca I presume you have had kidney stones so you have some idea how awful it is?
Would not it be a hoot (and come to think about it might be a interesting marketing ploy) to find out tha Rebecca is actually working with/for Joe?
sorry got to go and scream and crawl around , at the dog thinks its good fun being up at 2.11am.
Sorry yes, I am in Australia, perhaps the stone was a curse visited on me by John Howard.
Peter, so sorry to hear of your situation! Yes, I’ve had kidney stones. “Ouch” doesn’t even begin to cover it.
This summer I developed a kidney stone and in desperation bought Joe’s report despite reading this blog. The pain was so bad that a chance to get rid of it for $39 was a bargain. I followed it exactly actually twice to increase my chances. In my case it didn’t work. I ended up having two procedures to get rid of it costing over $15,000. Fortunately, I have great healthcare insurance. Over the last months I sent three different e mails to Joe asking for a refund. No reply. No refund. My only recourse is this blog. Thanks.
Sorry to hear about your surgery, Victor, but I hope you’re doing better now. I can’t say I’m surprised that you haven’t heard back from Joe about getting your money back. Several people have made the same kind of comment — several emails (if they could even find and email address for him) with no reply.
Joe was just recently over on my “Rob Boen” vs “Joe Barton” post bragging up his “money back guarantee” in the comments area. Let me mention your situation over in that post and possibly Barton will provide a different email address for you to contact him.
I’ll be interested in knowing whether you ever hear from him and if he does return your money to you.
Thanks for your comment. You’re doing the public a service by letting them know that, not only doesn’t Barton’s “cure” work, but he’s been unresponsive to your request for a refund.
After a year or so, I finally had the courage to admit to my doctor that I had pain, etc from possible gallstones. A sonogram confirmed this. I am still to meet with him to confirm my alternatives.
I am one of the thousands or more that cannot sleep from pain so do pull up info on the internet to see what I can do to ease the pain. I guess the pain outweighs the risk for some people and some would rather try to treat themselves.
Doesn’t anyone ever search the true doctor and webhealth sites? None of these sites ever mention ‘passing of gallstones’. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I admit I hate surgery but I would rather put my faith and trust in a trained professional than try to treat myself and possibly end up with a more serious problem such as a stone getting lodged in the bile duct.
I downloaded Mr.Barton’s method of reducing my wife’s high blood pressure.Before we started the treatment we found my wife was suffering from” white coat syndrome” and when I took my wife’s blood pressure at home there was a very signifant fall which continued over the next few days. There was no need for Mr.Barton’s method which was more or less along the lines we were already pursuing.I could have saved my money. Perhaps Mr. Barton will read this and send me a refund!!
Interesting blog everyone, I also happened upon Joe’s book ad page, and did some research my self, it appears that thousands of people have good luck with a different cure than the coke and asparagus, and that is a few ounces of lemon juice to break up the stones and a few ounces of extra virgin olive oil… many many people claim it works very well.
Ive been having a lot of lower back / kidney pain recently and plan on doing it.
Hope this helps read all the peoples comments (no afiliation to me) http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/kidney_stones.html
[...] Quite a few people have emailed me or posted comments on the other “Joe Barton” related posts (here, here, here, and here) asking whether I know of some way of contacting Joe Barton to get a refund of the money spent on his “reports”. [...]
Dear Rebecca – You ROCK! I love this site, this is a great example of democracy and free speech at it’s best. Mr Barton may not agree but I feel anyone who is making a buck off of others is fair game to open review by his peers, participants of “his remedies” as well as skeptics. Thank God Almighty we live in a free (haha) well mostly free country where we can (still) speak our minds. Even Mr. Barton gets to post his thoughts and defend himself against what others might say. We are blessed to be able to educate ourselves, to challenge what we’re being told, to think for ourselves and to speak our own opinions. Thanks Kim
Fascinating reading – especially the link given in message 69 (which gives the two approaches that it seems Joe is selling) plus lots of other information.
I suppose that the issues are
a) is this someone who has found a home remedy out for a quick buck and
b) does this remedy work?
I’ve been through lithotripsy once and its not great fun (though I suspect a hell of a lot better than surgery) so I don’t really care about a) [although thanks to the blog for saving my £15]. As for b) , it seems that coke itself has some very detrimental effects on your kidneys all by itself so the solution is best viewed with caution – ask your Doctor and see if he/she laughs at you!
Thanks for this blog and for the generous person who posted the link to the home remedies. Hubby is in excruciating pain and we wanted to try something here before going for surgery but I wasn’t going to pay $40, I am too a skeptic and figured as well that if it is out there for sale, someone has posted it for free and after some searching, voila! I found it! LOL
Thanks for this blog. We will try to remember to report back on the results, but I think we are trying the EVOO and lemon juice before the asparagus and coke(which is gross and soda is not recommended for people with kidney stones anyways!).
Hi, Rebecca. Appreciate your undoubtedly good intentions and willing to help, you are teaching people some good reasoning — something that many are lacking. It is a crucial factor, too, in handling one’s health issues.
But just like some who already posted here, I feel compelled to point to a weak spot: let alone Joe Barton’s business aspect(business is business, you know), it is generally correct to assume that surgery is the LAST resort, and the least desirable thing, too. And why so? Well, just because it is treating the symptoms and not the cause.
A lot of gallstones related sources, for example, state this to be true with this particular problem as well. It doesn’t take a high degree doctor to conclude, that, since gallstones are consequence of liver malfunction, it is better to cure the liver — if only we knew how. And in this regard the correct regime and diet are known to be crucial factors, don’t need Joe Barton to tell that. More than one of the sources figure out this simple thing: it is the bile chemical contents that work to build up stones, then some conditions will work to dissolve/reduce them. So I don’t view it as something impossible that somebody should find an appropriate diet.
And another fact is true: doctors not always know what to do, so they do the only thing they know! Cut it off! Better than dying from it anyway, I agree. But doesn’t it hit you as some obvious truth, that most of our diseases are diet and life-style related? So, again, if some guy considered it to be a good business to study such diets and sell his results as cheap as $30 — why not? It is his work anyway, and the price is fair indeed — for those, who prefer to test different ways, but most of all, who are interested in taking care of their health personally, rather than leave it to the doctor.
And the last word about doctors in general: I’ve noticed, in order to be able to select a good treatment for oneself, one still needs to study his own disease, habits, possible causes and existing treatments, and them make his own decision. It is my life and my body after all. In that regard “Barton”-like(sorry, Joe) approach seems attracting. So, all your sound reasonings didn’t actually show why Joe Barton treatments must NECESSARILY be fake.
But thanks for your good reasonings anyway.
Oh, and a little addition. Quite a few medical sites are skeptic about the driving of gallstones out just because the bile duct is TOO narrow to allow some stones out. Others present proof, that the stones driven out after the apple/cider/olive oil diet approach were, in fact, solid particles that RESULTED from such food combination. But then they say that at least ONE patient had REAL stone go out resulting from the procedure.
So, you see, our body can do more than we know of …
I’ve never claimed that Barton’s “remedies” must necessarily be fake. Rather, I’ve suggested (in so MANY words) that spending money on his reports is unwise for a couple of reasons.
1. Barton is unqualified to say whether his “remedies” actually work or not. He’s never subjected them to any sort of scientific analysis and is, apparently, incapable of doing so.
2. A person is better off going to a real doctor for treatment because a) real doctors (as opposed to, for example, homeopaths) use methods that have been developed through scientific means, and b) studies supporting the effectiveness of any given treatment are available for people to review before they spend their money on treatment.
So, while I believe Barton’s “remedies” are VERY unlikely to be effective (except when he’s suggesting common sense precautionary things like cutting down on salt to help lower blood pressure), it’s always possible that he may accidentally come across something that turns out to be effective.
I’d still put my money on real medical practice.
Found this site while helping my husband gather ALL information regarding treatment for his rather large kidney stone. The medical model is riddled with questionable results and potential damage to other organs etc…. I am a chiropractor, extensively educated in nutrition and naturopathic medicine. I am writing as, maybe hard for you to believe, an unbiased messenger of FACTUAL information. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Complete knowledge is necessary to make sound, rational, reasonable decisions. Anyone without scientific education would reasonably be baffled by the idea of coca-cola used to dissolve kidney stones. However, coca-cola along with many other sodas contains phosphoric acid which quickly leaches calcium for the bones. I have for years campaigned AGAINST drinking coca-cola and soda in general to prevent osteoporosis as it is very strong and very damaging to the calcium in bones. This same FACT, well researched, well proven, well documented, is the exact same reason why the Coca-cola treatment for kidney stones could actually be HUGELY effective, viable, and PREFERABLE to much more potentially dangerous and damaging treatments. I don’t know the mechanism that asparagus plays but we most CERTAINLY are going to pay the pittance of a price to find out the specific of why the two work in tandem and what the recommended dosages are and at what intervals. This is the most reasonable, safest remedy I have come across as it makes PERFECT SCIENTIFIC sense. As for the point that sugar is not recommended for kidney stones, that is on an ongoing prolonged basis. A one or two dosage Treatment is not the same as a lifestyle habit…..Plus, phosphoric acid is also readily available (and listed right there in the ingredients for all to see) in diet coke so I’m sure that would be equally effective if it is going to work for someone at all. Lastly, don’t forget we are all different….. No remedy or treatment of any kind is going to work or not work exactly the same for any two people. So much of medical care is trial and error.
It doesn’t make PERFECT SCIENTIFIC SENSE at all to use a one-size-fits-all “cure” for kidney stones when there are, in fact, FOUR different kinds of kidney stones a person might have.
Two kinds of kidney stone conditions — calcium and uric acid stones — can be made worse by eating asparagus and drinking colas because they can increase the levels of oxalate or uric acid in the urine.
That’s the sort of information you get from real science — not from the old wive’s tales and folk remedies compiled by Joe Barton.
I think you completely missed the point of the previous poster.
A few minutes ago I stumbled upon Joe’s site and then right after that while researching him I stumbled upon yours.
Your site in essence is a helpful thing as it encourages debate. Some of the details on your site are no better founded than Joe’s claims however. One of the reasons that medicine costs so much is the medical research (that you so highly tout) and approval process. This is neither good nor bad but an economic fact.
I for one take no medicines of any kind nor have I for years. Probably the last thing I took was an antibiotic years ago. Would I consult a medical doctor if I felt i had one of the problems that Joe claims to have natural remedies for? Actually I’d consult several.
You state that people can die from gallstones and I have no reason to dispute this claim. If something is life-threatening then one best get themselves to the Doc or the ER fast as you seem to have done. If one can determine that they have slightly more time to attempt nutritional remedy first, then in many cases it would be prudent and well worth the 30 bucks to do so. If Joe’s info doesn’t work and he doesn’t refund your money then just dispute it on your credit card, DUH. You can do that from the hospital bed while your stitches heal up.
One is primarily responsible for their own health and this includes researching every avenue and possible solution in the time given. Your site is not an attempt to do this but an attempt to discredit Joe without investigating whether or not he is right. He may be a total quack but your lack of personal integrity in actually investigating the matter at hand is disheartening.
Yet, I still maintain that this site, page, comments MAY have some potential value as they encourage debate. Some will maintain the belief that medicine is the ONLY solution, some maintain that nutritional therapy the ONLY and then you have the honest people such as myself who wish to look, learn, find out and decide for themselves.
If I had a serious problem such as he claims to remedy then I would consult at least 3 doctors IMMEDIATELY, buy his book (on a credit card that I could dispute), web search, read medical literature on the topic, read nutritional literature on the topic, etc… To blindly trust doctors is to throw all of your responsibility for your own health out the window. Do ya wanna live?
Just my opinion albeit lengthy… And I don’t work for Joe.
Best,
-ultra
Rebecca, if you are truly interested in offering a viable forum for information sharing, you would do well to read these posts more closely. SLR wrote that “a one or two dosage treatment is not the same as a lifestyle habit” and added “don’t forget we are all different … no remedy or treatment of any kind is going to work exactly the same for any two people.”
Your reply to SLR was completely off-point. Why not do us all a great service by sharing your your vast knowledge of “real science” rather than finding issues where there aren’t any?
Rebecca, if you are truly interested in offering a viable forum for information sharing, you would do well to read these posts more closely.
Good lord, man! Where did you get the idea my primary interest was in providing a “viable forum for information sharing”?
This is a blog, dude. My primary interest is in expressing my opinions. As you’ve seen, I’m usually perfectly fine with letting people who disagree with me have their say here. Depending on my mood and my schedule I may or may not follow up with additional comments of my own.
But, really, you’re just being silly if you think I’m under some kind of obligation to comment when and how you want me to.
So is Joe’s formula coke and asparagus? I have rid myself of 2 very large stones using a combination of herbs and energy work a couple of years ago.
I never drink coke or any other sodas, but if I could clear my kidneys of a couple new stones by drinking a liter of coke it would be much easier!
Joe if your out there why is there no way to get a hold of you?
How are people supposed to get refunds?
Another thought, Joe, you’re making thousands and thousands of dollars perhaps millions of dollars on your online self help business. What do you do to give back to the community? What do you do for people who have no money?
You have little over head and huge profit margin, maybe I should post my common herbs on a web site so I can make millions of dollars…I don’t think so.
I think it’s great to help people pass stones, but capitalizing on people pain and suffering is different.
I know Doctors and drug companies love to make money on costly treatments, but so do you.
I do not question your remedy, but I do question your ethics. Where is your give back? Do you support a foundation to help those who can’t afford doctors and online self help gurus?
Your publishing company…are there books or just your online $$$$ business?
I guess you have us by the kidney stones!
The truth according to me!!!
I have no opinion either way on Jo Barton. I never paid for his material, but got it second hand through some research and a friends advice.
This is exactly my story concerning Kidney Stones Only!!!
I had one back in 2003 and I went through 2 weeks of agony and B.S. Along with a $3900 bill from the E.R. visit. After waiting in Agony for three hours, I was given some vicodin and sent home to deal with it until it either passed or I died. End of Story.
Fast Forward to today. I tried this “Quack cure” because basically I had nothing to lose!!
I went to the store and bought a six pack of coke, a pound of asparagus and a gallon of distilled water. I think It cost $7 and change.
I did what was recommended by my friend who bought Joe’s system and a similar system I found on one of many online blog forums. If you read carefully and have some intuition it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out how to administer the application.
As a matter of fact there are many other web sites that offer a similar if not exact remedy for Kidney stones. Spend a few minutes googling and firgure it out for yourself.
Case in point!! The process worked, I cannot tell you how, I cannot tell you why and frankly I really don’t care. The fact is I am not doubled over in pain unable to function anymore. To me, that is everything!!!!
So my advice for Kidney stone sufferers is, why not try it for yourself. I mean What do you have to lose? $7 or your maybe better yet your kidney stones!! You do the math.
And why be so hard on Joe? So he is making some money off of his website, so what.
So it might not work for some people, so what.
I guess when I think about something that costs a few bucks, i’m not sure what he charges? It pales in comparison to a $3900 E.R. bill that I had to pay 10% of with my first kidney stone.
By the way, I just pulled up his website and have seen that he offers a 100% money back guarantee if the procedure doesn’t work.
I mean come on, what do you have to lose?
There really is no risk.
If you ask me, the guy is at least trying to do something good by putting the information out there.
I myself would pay whatever he charges to get the results that I got for free.
I don’t know how many other sites he has and I really could care less.
I only know that the advice he gives on kidney stones was 100% effective for me.
So who is worse, Jo or the drug companies?
I will take the drug companies 99 out of 100 times.
I can’t get over the amount of people posting here who seem to think Joe should be admired for profiteering off people in pain.
I’ve had kidney stones. I drank a lot of water and pushed them through. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if one of the steps in Joe’s amazing remedy is to drink a lot of water. It’s probably the one step that is actually effective.
As far as I’m concerned, Joe can get stuffed. The claim he made earlier that he charges $39 in order to cover advertising costs so he can reach people in need is obvious bullcrap (And even more obviously bullcrap if he does indeed make his suckers agree to a non-disclosure agreement).
If he were really so saintly, he could publish his remedy for free and it would filter through the net and across other sites and be easily found on a google search. In fact, it already has, despite his attempts to prevent it.
What an exploitative jerk.
Rebecca, you rock.
Best web site I had found and has most of the information that is in the report you pay for….if not a copy from other readers.
I was just curious if anyone has had the aspiration procedure done and examination of synovial fluid…Just curious if it is painful like the Corticosteroids shot(that hurt!)?
http://www.icuredmygout.org/
and
http://www.aafp.org/afp/990215ap/925.html
Wow! Interesting reading. I was about to order Joe’s Grave’s Disease or Hyperthyroidism cure, but was hesitating on how secure it was to give my charge card number. I decided to search Joe Barton and scam because there was so much on his site about how safe and secure it was, it made me a little nervous! From what I’ve read, I think he’s not going to take more than the $33.97 and to me it’s worth it to get a complete list of possible helps. (Maybe I’ll run and get a preloaded Visa gift card, just to be safe. They don’t cost anything at my credit union.) I’ve been dealing with Hyperthyroidism for 6 months and believe it was brought on when I started using aspartame and sucralose products, which I hadn’t used in the past. Those artificial sweeteners did help me lose weight, but then I lost even more weight when my thyroid went crazy. I’ve been going to a regular medical doctor who is also a homeopath. (That’s a rare, but awesome find!) She has had me on some Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome herbal cures, as well as atenolol (a drug) to help with the heart rate and other symptoms. I’ve also been using Reliv (a soy nutrition drink), and it’s good stuff, thought a bit expensive unless you become a dealer…Even then it’s still not cheap, but it has had amazing results for many people. Anyway, I’m just getting impatient. I’ve had little results and would like to try Joe’s suggestions to see if they help speed things up. Even if they are just a compilation of helps available on the internet, at least they’ll all be together and will be addressing my disease specifically. I’m not worried about losing the money if it doesn’t work. I wouldn’t ask for a refund, even if it didn’t. It will be interesting reading. The only medical solution for hyperthyroidism is to kill off your thyroid and take synthetic thyroid drugs the rest of your life. Thanks for the place to share, Rebecca. I don’t think you’re cranky, just opinionated like we all are! I understand the frustration about Joe selling information that isn’t scientifically proven, but I also see his position. I’m sure this is his source of income and it’s probably a good one, but there are a lot of people who get paid more for even less. Sorry this is so long. I guess I had a lot to say. Have a happy day!
Many thanks, Rebecca, for sparking this 2 and 1/2 year debate. I can’t believe I read the whole thing! Gave me a lot to think about…
Though I wouldn’t put it past me to try the coke & asparagus trick next time I get “kidney stoned”, just for kicks, I’m also smart enough to run that idea by a real doctor, if only to make sure he doesn’t think I’ll die from it.
Now, about ol’ Joe, I say he’s nothing more than a good, old-fashioned capitalist… pure and simple. May not be pretty, but if you don’t like it, move to North Korea. If he can actually fill a bottle with air and convince someone to pay him 39 bucks for it, more power to him. Anyone daft enough to pay, rather than take a few extra minutes to do a little more research of their own, deserves to be parted with their cash. It’s way more common than any of us would like to admit. How many toys did you buy your kids last Christmas that are still in working order today? Ever shop at Ikea? Or buy a term life insurance policy? I just spent 6 bucks for a garlic press the other day that broke after the second time I tried to press one measly little clove. (By the way, Joe undoubtedly believes this deeply too… how else could he sleep at night?)
Where you really have him, in my book, is if he truly does not follow through with his promise of a refund. Even Walmart (and how much lower – or perhaps higher, depending on your perspective – on the capitalism food chain can you get than that?) gave me back my money for the flourescent purple stuffed dog that shed all over my living room 5 minutes after my daughter took it out of the box!
Stand by your word, Joe, or what else have you got but your filthy lucre to rot in?
Thanks for the info gleaned thru this blog. I stand by your ideas about Joe and his less than wholesome business.
I looked in on your alto flute demo and really enjoyed it. Don’t remember ever hearing an alto flute played before. The pads seem to make more noise than a regular flute. I couldn’t get the other 3 clips to play for me.
I think that you won every tif. You seem extra intelligent. Thanks again.
Earlier Joe Barton said the following:
“It’s been awhile since I’ve posted here… it’s nice to know people care so much about me!
For those of you who despise the fact that we sell our reports for around $30, I wonder if you realize that we pay a lot of money in advertising so we can reach people like you who suffer from these different health problems…
We compete against multi-million dollar drug companies to try and show people a cheaper, safer, natural alternative.
If that offends you, I apologize.
The alternative to charging for our reports would be to fill our pages with annoying ads and popups that ask you to “click here” everywhere you look – and most likely, those ads would be paid for by the pharmaceutical companies.”
I don’t understand why he needs to advertise at all, if his supposed goal is only to spread the word on his cures. He claims, for example, on refluxremedy that his apple cure worked more or less instantaneously and is almost certain to work for everyone.
If this cure were truly so effective, he could just tell people he knows and word of mouth would take this very far indeed.
Gout sufferers, wanna know a secret in effective home remedy for gout? then pls send $39 to me!..
ok seriously.. Baking Soda works! take 1/2 tsp and mix it with water…. B.S alkalizes your body Ph which make crystals much harder to form thus preventing gout..
OTOH B.S is sodium so obviously make sure you significantly reduce your total sodium intake on days where you are taking B.S…
Wow, this has been a eye opener for sure. Thank you for your blog I think I just made a smart decision to save myself 40 buck. I have had only one stone in my life, but I think Im dealing with number 2 today. Can anyone give me an idea…..I “thought” I pulled a muscle in my middle lower back, but it has now spread around to both sides of my back and I cant relieve any pain by altering my position. From what I have seen on Web M.D..etc., I think I may be in early stages of having a stone pass. Last time I woke up in the middle of the night to pee, and dropped like a rock to the floor for the next 2 hours. I just couldnt move due to the pain..
Hopefully, this wont be a long night….
Ah jeez… sorry to hear it. I presume you’re talking about a kidney stone? Yes indeed — they’re pretty awful. Been there. Done that. Actually… the last couple times I had kidney stones I wound up in the ER and they gave me IV Demerol. Now THAT was nice! One instant — excruciating pain. The next instant — a delightful floating feeling and a sense of infinite bliss!
I think the best you can probably do for yourself short of a trip to the ER is to drink a LOT of fluids to see if you can’t urge the little monster through your urinary system as quickly as possible.
Good luck!
Rebecca, here is a “stone” cold fact about Joe Barton’s remedy for kidney stones: My 19 year old son recently acquired kidney stones. He visited a doctor at an Urgent Care facility, was given vicodin and sent home with the instructions to drink a lot of water and wait for the stones to pass. One week later, still in pain, he called the doctor’s office he previously visited. They instructed him to go to an emergency room because there was nothing else they could do for him. In researching kidney stones he had read about Joe Barton’s report. Realizing that an emergency room visit would cost thousands, even after insurance paid their portion, my son called to see what I thought about the Joe Barton report. After reading everything I could find, including your blog, I reasoned that $30 was far less than a few thousand, and, if there was even a slight possibility that the $30 option would work, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the obvious choice. Guess what? Less than 4 hours after beginning the remedy, mys son’s stones are passing and he is finally without pain.
Does this real-life study do anything to validate the remedy for you? Here’s another question for you: When a doctor prescribes medication as treatment, is there any guarantee that the medication will work? It has been my experience that physician prescribed medication does not always cure the illness. Also, why is it acceptable for the medical profession and pharmacies to charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to cure pain, but not acceptable for Joe Barton to charge $30?
Does this real-life study do anything to validate the remedy for you?
Sorry, no. This is what we’d call “anecdotal evidence”. Since there were no controls in place to determine exactly WHAT caused your son’s improvement, there’s really no way of knowing for sure that it was Joe’s remedy. It could have been coincidence, it could have been that your son simply wasn’t actually drinking enough water to force the stone’s passage until he began drinking for the Barton remedy. It could be that the stone had in fact already passed and what he was experiencing was lingering pain from its passage — pain which, for whatever reason, eased right around the time of doing the Barton remedy. (This is actually what I suspect is most likely. A kidney stone that hadn’t passed through the ureter for an entire week would very likely be causing problems far more severe than something you’d be willing to try to treat at home.)
When a doctor prescribes medication as treatment, is there any guarantee that the medication will work?
“Guarantee” is such a difficult word. There is always a possibility — sometimes a very remote possibility — that a particular medication won’t work well for a particular person. Still with many medications, the chances of them not working are so remote that a person would be foolish not to try them. For example: antibiotics for infections, synthroid for hypothyroidism, albuterol for asthmas. They’re all examples of drugs that work well for the vast majority of people who use them. There are many others.
It has been my experience that physician prescribed medication does not always cure the illness.
Some illnesses can’t be cured. They’re chronic and it’s necessary to treat the symptoms for long periods of time. Sometimes there are no effective cures. Sometimes, different drugs need to be tried before an effective cure (or treatment) for a particular individual is found. None of this is a good reason for indicting the entire world of mainstream medicine. It’s an undeniable fact that modern medicine has effectively treated or cured millions of people, saving millions of lives.
Also, why is it acceptable for the medical profession and pharmacies to charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to cure pain, but not acceptable for Joe Barton to charge $30?
When you pay medical professionals for treatment or advice, you’re getting the benefit of years of training based on actual science. When you pay Joe Barton, you’re getting…what? Information, maybe true and maybe not, that some guy with no medical training at all (as far as I know) has scraped together.
At least in the one of his “reports” I’ve seen you’re also getting, I might add, information published by other people that is available FOR FREE. The Barton report I’ve seen was very heavily padded with this information, by the way. If you’re interested in reading more about Joe’s improper use of that information, you can go here: Joe Barton and Plagiarism.
Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca it appears that you are a very frustrated medical professional. Do you have a degree in medicine? It would seem so. You’re reaching, you really are. You must have had very good luck with the physicians who have treated you and your family over the years. Personally, I have experienced (from said medical professionals with years of training, etc.) misdiagnosis, lack of compassion, medications that do not work, unwillingness to refer a problem to a specialist when said doctor cannot diagnose…the list goes on.
Doesn’t it seem the slightest bit odd to you that hours after trying Joe’s plan the kidney stones started to break up and leave the body? Also, let me clarify, my son had been drinking volumes of water in the week prior to trying the remedy, which did not produce any results. Hmmmmmm.
Again, $30 vs. thousands. What is the harm in giving this a try? What is your reluctance to admit that it might just be working?
I won’t go on too long here because I believe you might be in it just for the argument, which you seem to thoroughly enjoy.
Michelle, Michelle, Michelle…
No, I’m not a medical professional. I don’t even claim to be a “medical researcher” like Joe Barton does. Or… “the world’s leading sore throat expert”, one of his other claims. I’m just a person who appreciates science and reason: both of which are in very short supply in Joe Barton’s “reports”.
I’m sorry to read that you’ve had such difficulty with medical professionals in your life. Some people just seem to have bad luck in that regard. Some people bring their bad luck with them in terms of their attitude and expectations. Perhaps you’re not one of those people. Perhaps you are. I won’t even venture a guess. You’re correct, though, that over the years I’ve been generally pleased with the medical treatment I have received.
You write about how your son’s kidney stones broke up after starting Joe’s treatment but the problem with your anecdote is that there’s really no way of know what was going on with your son. All you know is that his feeling better occurred around the same time he did the Barton “remedy” but you have no way of know whether there’s any real relationship between the two at all. You don’t actually KNOW whether your son even still had kidney stones at that point. (I presume you didn’t collect his urine and take in for a lab analysis.) You say your son was drinking “volumes” of water, but that’s not useful information. What volume? How much and how often? And how did that earlier drinking of water compare, in exact time and volume measurements, with what he did for the Barton “remedy”?
I don’t expect that you kept track of all of that information. Most people wouldn’t. But you need to understand that exact measurements of that sort are just the beginning of determining whether Joe Barton’s “remedy” actually does anything. Exact measurements are the beginning of science. Anything else is just waiving your arms around and guessing at causation versus correlation.
The harm in people spending their money on unproven “remedies” of the sort Joe Barton sells is that they may delay getting proven treatments for serious medical conditions. Kidney stones can be serious. Gall stones can be serious. People have died from these conditions by not having access to real medical treatment. That’s just one of the ways Barton’s stuff is harmful. The other way it harms people is that it encourages a sort of non-scientific magical thinking that keeps people ignorant. There’s already too much ignorance in the world and, frankly, it pains me to see people actually paying for more of it. (But then… I don’t watch “American Idol” either, so…)
Confirmed, you’re in it for the argument.
To provide clarification to those who might be deterred by your endless “wanna be” medical babble:
(I presume you didn’t collect his urine and take in for a lab analysis.) You’re so right, I didn’t collect his urine, but he did! I wonder what those solid substances were that couldn’t possibly be urine. I’m going to venture a guess that because he had already been to a doctor who told him he had kidney stones, they were probably kidney stones.
(All you know is that his feeling better occurred around the same time he did the Barton “remedy” but you have no way of know whether there’s any real relationship between the two at all) Again, you’re so right. I suppose this line of reasoning works just as well if one were to take an aspirin and feel relief from pain. How would one know that the pain disappeared as a direct result of ingesting the aspirin? How would one know for SURE that there was any real relationship between swallowing the aspirin and disappearance of the headache? Would not this hold true with any prescribe drug, or medical treatment. How would one know for SURE that the drug or treatment directly resulted in relief? Do we really know anything for SURE? Given that we likely don’t, I suppose we should abstain from anything we’re not SURE of.
(Exact measurements are the beginning of science. Anything else is just waiving your arms around and guessing at causation versus correlation.) So, if one were to place their hand directly into a burning hot campfire, where seemingly, directly following the act, blisters and redness appear upon the hand, I would guess the act caused a burn. But this is just causation vs. correlation, no measurement would have been taken to confirm that the insertion of the hand into the fire caused the burn. Therfore, the fire may not have caused the burn. I’m getting it now!
Rebecca, do you really think that medical conditions can only be treated by drugs and operations?
Readers, please, $30 vs. thousands. Try the $30 just for kicks and grins. After, of course, visiting a doctor to confirm your condition. Just know there are choices.
One more thing, ignorance comes in all shapes and sizes. Narrow mindedness might just be one of those shapes. Let’s not be fooled into believing that medical professionals possess no ignorance.
Confirmed, you’re in it for the argument.
Hey, it’s my web site. I live here. You’re the one who keeps coming back. Looks to me like you’re the one who wants to argue.
Whatever. I don’t mind discussing this with you for the time being.
I wonder what those solid substances were that couldn’t possibly be urine. I’m going to venture a guess that because he had already been to a doctor who told him he had kidney stones, they were probably kidney stones.
Possibly. Possibly not. You eat enough asparagus and drink enough coke and god only knows what sort of thing your body will put out.
I suppose this line of reasoning works just as well if one were to take an aspirin and feel relief from pain. How would one know that the pain disappeared as a direct result of ingesting the aspirin? How would one know for SURE that there was any real relationship between swallowing the aspirin and disappearance of the headache?
We know for SURE that aspirin alleviates pain because scientific studies have been done to discover what causes different kinds of pain and EXACTLY how the chemicals in aspirin work on those causes. It’s not magic, Michelle. Science is much more than just trying a bunch of different things and hoping for the best.
How would one know for SURE that the drug or treatment directly resulted in relief? Do we really know anything for SURE?
We know many things for SURE because reality doesn’t change just because you don’t believe in it. We know that many drugs really work because of double-blind studies with placebos. If you’re not familiar with how a double-blind study works, I’ll briefly explain. In a double-blind study, neither the subject (the patient) nor the experimenter (the doctor) know whether the subject is getting the real drug or an inert substance (the placebo). This kind of thing is done because people’s response to any treatment can be profoundly influenced by their expectations. Even if only the doctor knows whether the real drug or the placebo is given, she can still give unintentional cues to the patient that could influence the patient’s response. So, both doctor and patient remain clueless about what’s being given. In a double-blind study, if the real drug consistently gets significantly better results than the placebo, you’ve got a pretty good indication that the drug works. Typically, MANY studies are done with MANY different kinds of people. As positive results for the drug accumulate, the certainty that the drug works for SURE becomes greater until — in combination with what the scientists understand about the drug’s chemical composition and its interaction with the body — it’s understood by all rational people that the drug does, indeed, work.
So, if one were to place their hand directly into a burning hot campfire, where seemingly, directly following the act, blisters and redness appear upon the hand, I would guess the act caused a burn. But this is just causation vs. correlation, no measurement would have been taken to confirm that the insertion of the hand into the fire caused the burn. Therfore, the fire may not have caused the burn. I’m getting it now!
No, sorry. You’re not getting it. You don’t need to measure every event that ever occurs in order to understand whether X causes Y. People only have to do it enough times under controlled conditions to eliminate other reasonable explanations. YOU don’t have to measure the temperature of the fire and the effect on your hand because hundreds of people have already done so. It used to be — back in the time of the ancient Greeks — that people didn’t really understand why fire burns. But, like I said earlier, reality doesn’t change just because you don’t understand it or don’t believe in it. Eventually, people came to an understanding of what fire is and why, when you put your hand in it, you get hurt. It’s not because the gods are angry with you. It’s because different substances have different abilities to withstand different levels of heat before breaking down into their constituent elements. It’s all been measured out and tested under controlled conditions countless times to the point where there’s no longer any question that fire CAUSES the burn.
I understand, of course, that you were being cute in an attempt to make a point. You are, however, displaying a profound lack of understanding as to how science works and why it’s better to rely on science than on anecdotes when it comes to deciding how to treat an illness.
Rebecca, do you really think that medical conditions can only be treated by drugs and operations?
No. Many medical conditions are best treated through lifestyle changes.
OK, so here’s my analogy:
Who’s to say a home remedy may not work? I happen to know someone with a method (which uses encouragement and filling out a chart) which claims to help kids practice their violin (or any instrument) longer and more effectively!! It may be up to 80% effective! I have actually tried it myself and will vouch that it works. Now this method has not been scientifically studied or validated by any major educational institutions that I am aware. Is it unethical that she charges apprx. $27. for the book to get this information?
Since the consequences of not adequately practicing one’s violin are significantly less dire than the potential consequences of not obtaining effective treatment of one’s gall stones (for example), I’d have to say that I find your analogy to be seriously flawed.
But the out of pocket expense is similar.. And the analogy illustrates the underlying principal even if the 2 situations are in completely different arenas in life. Your concern would only be relevant if this alternative solution put a person at greater risk by procluding other (medical) treatments. His claim that it will work in 3-4 hrs should leave one plenty of time to continue to go with the doctor’s routine should it not work. I would think one would want to follow up with the doctor anyway to make sure it actually worked.
Yes, gall stones are a serious matter, but we are evaluating the risk of trying an alternative method, not evaluating the risk of leaving it untreated completely. I am not a doctor, but it seems like the risks are as follows (based on what I read above):
1. $30 or whatever it costs for the info
2. $10 for some groceries
3. risk that consuming those grocery items may in fact be bad for you.
4. humiliation at having to tell someone what you tried!
5. risk of not seeking proper medical attn because you incorrectly thought the remedy worked. but like I say I would think one would still see the doctor for follow up anyway.
Now of course someone could make a list of the risks of the allopathic medical treatments…
Thanks for your blog space..
Your concern would only be relevant if this alternative solution put a person at greater risk by procluding other (medical) treatments. His claim that it will work in 3-4 hrs should leave one plenty of time to continue to go with the doctor’s routine should it not work. I would think one would want to follow up with the doctor anyway to make sure it actually worked.
Well, one would think… but it’s surprising how many people don’t apparently care whether something ACTUALLY works.
I believe you’re being wildly optimistic with your idea that a person would only lose 3-4 hours of their time in trying one of Barton’s “remedies”. First there’s the time spent figuring out how to download the report (and for some people that’s quite a while!), then there’s time spent reading through the thing, then the trip to the grocery store to buy whatever it is he suggests you try, and THEN there’s the 3-4 hours (or however long he claims it will take).
I submit to you that the risk of trying an alternative method and the risk of leaving the condition completely untreated may turn out, in some cases, to be identical.
There’s another danger inherent in Barton’s “remedies”, though. It’s the danger of encouraging people to reject scientific medicine in favor of wishful thinking and unproved (or sometimes already disproved) folk remedies. It’s the danger of encouraging and perpetuating ignorance.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! This blog is wonderful!
I’ve had two kidney stones in the past and have lived in fear of another. Last weekend I overexerted myself and was left completely dehydrated. This combined with my sedentary lifestyle, history of kidney stones, and poor diet really set me up for a problem.
I woke up one morning with a sharp pain in the lower right part of my back and a dull pain in my lower right abdomen. Oh Oh! I made an appointment with my urologist but can’t see him till next week. As the days went on….the pain started getting worse. It wasn’t hospital time pain but I was getting very worried. “What if my right kidney is shutting down?” “What if I really done it this time?” I don’t have any narcotics in my home and I didn’t have any alcohol. “What would I do if the pain grew worse?”
I’m a professional and I work in the health care field so I like to think that I’m a critical consumer of health information. But I’m also aware that there really are a great many lifestyle changes and home approaches that can be very effective where appropriate. I mean, people had kidney stones since the dawn of time. I’m sure there must be plenty of approaches used prior to twentieth century medicine. So I decided to search online and just check out what some of those “home remedies” might be. Most of the information that I found I was already aware of. Avoid soda, maintain an active lifestyle, drink plenty of water, calcium can sometimes help but calcium supplements are a definite no-no and should be avoided, foods rich in B vitamins seem to help, lemonaid from concentrate seems to help, cranberry juice is never a bad thing, avoid tea, high protein diets can be troublesome etc… OK. All of this seemed to have some scientific evidence supporting it. Then I stumbled on Joe Barton’s website.
What struck me first was the HARD SELL. I was nearly bludgeoned over the head with his fantastic, and fantastically simple, cure. Immediately my BS meter maxed out. The funny thing about anecdotal evidence is that, even though it is completely unreliable, it really is so convincing. And when you are frightened and in a lot of pain, you really really do want to believe it. After looking at his website I felt fairly confident about one thing though. Joe Barton is trying to make money. But what about his “miracle”? “Oh my god! What are these two magic foods that I’m already eating?”
Then I noticed his credentials. He’s a “medical researcher”. What the hell is that? He’s not a research scientist. Those people have PhD’s. What does that mean? Well, it means that he likes to read stuff. Every single person who looks up or reads some health related article is also a “medical researcher”. It really means nothing. Now I was getting really skeptical. What exactly is his training and education? Oh look, he’s an accountant, his education and training is in managing money. And he’s a professional. He has a professional license. Now that I knew his profession, I was very confident that he would be an excellent person for advice on which IRA to put my money in, or how best to budget my money. I wasn’t convinced that he had any expertise in what to do about my kidney stone.
Then I saw a doctor listed on his website. A doctor; well lets see what he has to say. Scott Saunders says that he has read the reports and that they provide a variety of information that he finds well researched. Ok. So what? He doesn’t say that any of the remedies have any evidence supporting their efficacy. This is purely an argument by authority. The reader is supposed to think, “wow, if a doctor likes them, they must be good.” But the doctor didn’t base his opinion on any scientific evidence. And what is this doctor’s training and experience? It seems he went to UCLA medical school and has a family practice with his wife who is also a physician. Is he a board certified urologist? No. In fact, urology isn’t his specialty. It doesn’t appear that he has any specialized training or experience in treating kidney stones at all. And he doesn’t endorse any of the treatments Joe Barton sells information on. He just says that he’s a doctor and he thinks Joe did a great job of looking stuff up. Ok. This doesn’t convince me of anything except that Joe has a friend who is a doctor.
So this brings me back to Joe. Hey, apparently he looked up home remedies and put the information together into some type of handout. This doesn’t mean the information is not helpful or that the remedies aren’t effective. Hey, maybe the guy had a lot of kidney stones and spent years looking at all the cures of the ancient world. Maybe he’s a real kidney stone guru? So I thought, “hey, he went through the bother of compiling all this information, how much is it anyway?” What I noticed is that Joe sells the kidney stone information for not just one, but two payments of $33. So he took a bunch, or at least one, home remedy and typed it up and now wants $66 dollars for his effort. Hmmmmm This plus the hard sell was making me even more convinced that this guy was a jerk. I decided to check out the rest of his website.
What I noticed is that, apparently, Joe seems to fancy himself as a expert on nearly every health problem. I mean, its one think to choose one health problem, read about it, compile a report, and sell it as the greatest thing since sliced bread; but this guy does this with EVERYTHING! How can this guy possibly be an expert on ALL of these different subjects? Well, the answer is, he can’t. What he probably does is this. He picks a problem, does a little google searching, cuts and pastes some home remedies, rewrites the language, buys an internet domain name, links it to his other pages and bang, sells you the information. If someone writes and says that the remedy helped, he posts it. If they complain that it didn’t he doesn’t. It’s that simple. Is there anything wrong with that? Yes, I believe there is.
Here is my problem with Joe’s business. His marketing is based on fear and pain. He sells people false hope and makes money off their suffering. In return what does he offer? A home remedy that, with a little searching, anyone can find at their local library, book store, or the internet for free. But this isn’t how he markets his information. He doesn’t say, “hey, I looked up a bunch of home remedies for kidney stones and will gladly give you the information if you pay me for the effort of looking it up.” What he offers is a virtual miracle. He hasn’t compiled a list of recommended home remedies. He has picked only one. Then he sells that very hard making all kinds of incredible promises. He even goes so far as to say that you can only get this miracle cure from him. “Because it’s not available anywhere except right here on this website.” Now, here I am, in pain. Frightened. Hurting. And Joe is the only person on the planet who can help. Further, not only is he the only source for my relief, but he actually discourages me from seeking help from a licensed physician. He tells you that medical doctors don’t get any training in natural remedies. So you’re now supposed to think that Joe, who has no training in medicine, now had more knowledge than your local neurologist. But he goes even further. He goes on to say:
“But even if your doctor knew about this breakthrough remedy… do you think they would tell you about it? Prescribing medication and performing surgery is the lifeblood of their business! They make money when you receive medical treatment in hospitals. They don’t make money when you painlessly pass your kidney stones at home!”
(Now that’s funny, my doctor has been telling me to eat right and exercise for years. I guess I’m supposed to assume that these must be bad for my health. Hey, wait a minute. Perhaps that’s the real reason that Dr. Saunders supports Joe’s pamphlets. According to Joe that Dr. Saunders is really trying to make us sick in order to get more business. I guess I should stop brushing my teeth too…those crafty dentists. )
So not only is Joe telling you that only he has the answer to your suffering. But he is telling you that the medical establishment is actually out to harm you more.
All this is very different from saying, “hey I found a home remedy that seems to help a lot of people, I’ll tell you what it is if you pay me for the trouble of looking it up.” I find his entire scheme offensive and appalling. Its one thing to say “here’s a home remedy that seems to help some people.” Its quite another to say, “I’ve got the only answer to your pain, pay me instead of the doctors, you can’t trust them anyway, only I have the secret to alleviate your pain.” And that is exactly what his website, if it doesn’t say so outright, certainly implies.
He tells us that his cure is without side effects. But he doesn’t cite any evidence to base this (or any of his other claims) upon. We are just supposed to take Joe’s word for it. After all, he is an official self appointed guru, or, “medical researcher and kidney stone consultant”.
Does it even work? We don’t know. We can’t know because he doesn’t tell us what it is. We have to pay him for the privilege of researching it ourselves. But even if he does, some day, offer some research what will that tell us? Was it double blinded? What was the sample size? How was the sample selected? Has the study been replicated? Joe is the very first to point out that modern medical science is full of flaws. And it is. Fifty years from now we will likely have treatments that are much superior to those we are using today. And until the twentieth century most of our medicines really were effectively placebos only. In fact, if you read the medical literature one thing you will notice is that, depending on the area of medicine, some of the most effective drugs available only slightly outperform placebo in double blind controlled studies. And of course, they bring with them all kinds of potential side effects. Do we overmedicate people? Yes. Are we over reliant on pharmacotherapy? Absolutely. Can you trust the medical research being conducted? No, you have to read medical studies as skeptically as anything else. Studies funded by pharmaceutical companies are often extremely biased. But all this does NOT mean that we can trust good old Joe!
The medical research is often flawed. And we have a procedure which exposes those flaws and seeks to remedy them. It’s called the scientific method. Professional journals are peer reviewed. Studies are replicated. We test and retest a hypothesis over and over. We throw out old ideas upon new discoveries. Science is the process of continually searching for evidence and truth. What evidence does Joe base his finding on? It’s just Joe’s opinion of what is going to work. That and the handful of self selected people that said his method works (assuming that Joe didn’t write those testimonials himself). Is Joe’s method tested? Was Joe’s information published in a peer reviewed professional journal and subjected to public debate and scrutiny?
Joe states that the medical establishment has a build in bias because they make money off curing you but doesn’t he have an even greater bias. After all, my doctor isn’t profiting off the research conducted at a major university, he or she is reimbursed by me and my insurance carrier. And, my insurance company is NOT about to reimburse my doctor for any procedure that hasn’t been shown to be effective because they certainly ARE in the business of making sure that I use the least amount of medical services! Say what you want about managed care, they certainly are in the business of reducing the amount of doctor visits I need. And somehow I doubt they will reimburse me the expense of Joe’s advice.
Joe says that we can trust him because he has four children and because he goes to church. I find neither of these reasons to take his medical advice or to trust him. Fathering four children is certainly no guarantee that he is trustworthy or a medical expert. The jails are full of men who have fathered children. (While this might perhaps lend some credibility to his Erectile Dysfunction home remedy, it certainly tells me nothing about his honesty or kidney stone expertise.) And the fact that he attends church regularly, well this perhaps gets a bit personal, but the jails are also full of men with very strong religious beliefs. In fact, there are a large number of pedophile priests, so his church attendance really doesn’t state anything about his trustworthiness or his kidney stone research.
Now, Joe does give away hints at what his remedy is. And through my own internet searching I have discovered it. Here it is, free of charge: Drink one can of coca-cola ever twenty minutes until you have finished six cans. Then eat some asparagus, chewing it up well or blending it up in a blender. Some recopies say canned asparagus and others don’t specify. Then drink at least 64 ounces of water. There is another home remedy that Joe discourages on his website. That one is to mix 2 ounces of lemon juice with 2 ounces of extra virgin olive oil followed by a large glass of water. Feel free to try either if you like, but unlike Joe, I’m not claiming that it can’t harm you. And I’m certainly not going to tell you to do this in lieu of seeing a doctor.
I’m going to give this a try. I like coca-cola, I love asparagus, and I hate kidney stones. I hope it works. But I’m certainly not going to cancel my upcoming urologist appointment. And I’m not going to give Joe any of my money!
I searched his name because I was sure others had to discover that his real talent is marketing to and ripping off those who are in pain. Thank you so very much Rebecca for a well reasoned and intelligent blog.
Matt
Rebecca,
Just wanted to give you an update. And I wanted to apologize for the length of my last post. I tried the coca-cola and asparagus thing and guess what? I still have my kidney stones. Yes, the pain keeps getting worse.
What a lot of people don’t realize is that, a great many kidney stones pass on their own with little discomfort. So a person could tell you to eat or do just about anything and a lot of people’s stones will naturally pass shortly thereafter. “Hey, Matt told me to drink a quarter cup of vinegar then hop on my left foot three times and after that my kidney stone passed without surgery. It was worth the 60 bucks!” The body does remarkably heal itself without doctors in so many ways. But when it doesn’t, you need to get professional medical attention. And not turn to some snake oil salesman selling false hope to desperate people in pain. Ok, I’m going to shut up now. Or start my own darn blog. Thanks again. I think more people should hear the truth about the Joe Barton’s of the world.
Hi Matt! Thanks for the update. I’m sorry to hear that you’re still in pain but I’m not too surprised the coke & asparagus didn’t work.
I’ve enjoyed your recent comments so please don’t be concerned about their length! You’re welcome back here anytime!
My husband has ordered many “supplements” and such via internet only to find them at the local grocery store for 1/4 of the price. I have not tried Joe’s remedy, nor purchased it. I was put off by how hard of a sell he has and his claims of 4 boys and being church going as his form of offering credentials for integrity and honesty. No offense to Christians everywhere, but the times I have heard people profess their religious beliefs as a reason to trust them they have usually been disengenuous.
My daughter suffers, and I mean suffers, from kidney stones. She is in her mid 20′s. We’ve been to 2 urologists and 3 medical doctors. We’ve been to the ER 4 or 5 times in the last 3 months because of stones. They take CT scans, say they can’t see a stone, they can see a stone, they can’t see a stone, jack her up with pain meds and say it maybe was a stone but has already passed, they don’t know. EVERY TIME after we leave the ER she passes the stone within a few days. How do we know? Bloody urine and substantial pain for maybe a day, then everything returns to normal.
Our last visit, 2 days ago, they made her sign a “no pain medication” form because she’s been in so many times for the same problem that they can’t find. I guess they think a young woman who comes in with her mother is a junkie looking for pain meds. I think maybe they need another expert to review the CT scans, one who knows what they’re looking at.
She had a 2 year period where she would get severe pain, went to the er, had x-rays, was told she had a UTI. Finally found a urologist who looked at the x-rays and within seconds said, you have a 5mm stone and it needs surgery.
Totally frustrating!
Anyway, one thing that came to mind reading Barton’s page was he claims the stones are dissolved with his remedy. If they are dissolved, how can you see them and how can you know you passed them?
And one last FYI, many medical doctors will tell you that kidney stones are not that rare, that when seen in the kidney , most cases they will disolve on their own in the kidney and never cause a problem. I guess my daughter is one of the unlucky ones.
Still searching for a cure, but I know I won’t be sending Joe any $$
ok 1am and I have the ol kidney stone attack…I google home remedy for kidney stones and your friend Joey’s face appears.
I am in crazy pain thinking I may have an answer to help me and half way down..all for a price, so I am running for my purse (and another glass of water) to buy the home remedy and my pain subsides a bit..could it be I read his page and just maybe, his powerful marketing scared my stone away or is all the water just working it out..needless to say I come across your blog and laugh my way through..not to say I won’t be going out in the a.m. to buy a six pack of coke and asparagus for breakfast..been through the surgical procedures and stents in the past, so now on to the free info from your blog.Thank you all for the interesting read hope you are all cured, in whatever fashion you chose..it just sucks when you feel like crud and some one is dangling a cure for a home remedy for a price..almost the same price as my co-pay when visiting the Dr.
Take care
Hi Rebecca,
I went to your link where you play the alto flute and I must admit you seem like a good flautist.
Although I believe in the medical establishment (to a point) I also believe that they are flawed and very hesitant in their ability to research the efficacy of non-standard treatments. I have high blood pressure and have been living on beta blockers and diuretics for years now and I’ve got to say that it’s a huge pain to have to gear your life around buying and taking medication. I wonder if anyone has looked into the preventive value of Joe Bartons cure. In other words, if you’re susceptible to kidney stones maybe you should be having a can or two of coke and asparagus for dinner instead of quaffing the whole six pack.
I’ve read some scary posts on this site where people are in a great deal of pain and it saddens me that the medical profession is so helpless against a little ball of calcium (amongst other stuff). We should all encourage our medical care givers and our political leaders to research preventative measures as well as treatments, both alternative and mainstream.
Good luck to all who’ve suffered… Getting old does seem to suck.
Dave