New Fine For Bad Drivers In Virginia
Hefty Fees In Store for Misbehaving Va. Drivers – washingtonpost.com
Attention Virginians: The cost of bad driving is about to go up. Way up.Say you are driving 78 mph on the Capital Beltway and a state trooper tickets you for “reckless driving — speeding 20 mph over.” You will probably be fined $200 by the judge. But then you will receive a new, additional $1,050 fine from the Old Dominion, payable in three convenient installments. So convenient that you must pay the first one immediately, at the courthouse.
Hurray! What a great law! Now if they’d only make it illegal to drive while talking on the phone — and slap a HUGE fine on people who do it! That would really make my day!
Defense attorneys say the new fees will unfairly burden the poor because they will not be able to pay them, will lose their licenses and possibly their jobs, and then will face tickets for unlicensed driving, which would lead to jail time.
“Unfairly burden the poor”? What complete bullshit. That would only be true if the poor were forced to break the traffic laws more frequently because of some income-related factor. Poor people have as much opportunity to obey the law as do rich people. The fines will, of course, be more of a burden for a poor person — but it’s not an unfair burden. Just because a person’s poor, doesn’t mean he’s somehow less guilty of having broken the law. No, for the same infraction it should be the same fine — for everyone.
I think this is a good law but I’m afraid it won’t affect the way many people drive. There apparently just aren’t enough cops around to arrest all the bad drivers.
Posted by RebeccaHartong on June 23, 2007 under Uncategorized
Congratulations on supporting the increased effort to increase state revenue. In case you have missed it, the role of state police in NoVa has nothing to do with protect and serve…its all about catch, penalize, and collect. The glorified tax collectors will now have even more time to pull people over for HOV violations and going 65 on 66. The stats have shown over the years that increased enforcement has not done anything to reduce accidents, vehicle related deaths, or alcohol related vehicle deaths. But the $$$ coming in has been increased exponentially.
But I like the idea of “catch, penalize, and collect”. That’s exactly what I want the state police to do. It protects me from the unsafe conditions created when people speed — and that’s a public service. People who use the HOV lanes illegally screw up one of the incentives for people to car-pool and, since car-pooling reduces traffic congestion and reduces air pollution I want more of it — not less. And, how often do cops pull people over for going 1 mph over the speed limit? Not often. Finally — if you’d read the newspaper story about this new fine, you’d realize that the fine is only going to be imposed on people who are the more dangerous kinds of scofflaws. People who are drive less than 10 mph the speed limit will not be subject to the additional fine. I’m not sure about HOV violators, I’m guessing they won’t get it either.
As for increased enforcement reducing the number of accidents, I’d have to investigate it myself before I’d accept your assertion. Either way, I don’t have any problem with additional money going to the state, especially since that money would go towards road maintenance.
While the news article focused on a few of the preceived effects of the new fees, I think they totally missed why this new fee structure is important to all Virginians. “The statute states the purpose of these fees is ‘to generate revenue from drivers whose proven dangerous driving behavior places significant financial burdens upon the Commonwealth.’” To tax those who have no regard for the law and who are repeat offenders of the law is a better way to pay for the road improvements we all need in Northern VA then to raise taxes for all residents of VA. The question that comes to my mind is what defines “proven dangerous driving behavior.” Will these fees be enforced on first time offenders or just repeat offenders? Also I agree that higher fines are not the solution for changing the behavior of bad drivers. We really need greater presence of State Troopers on our highways. And they need to enforce the current laws. To many times, I have seen Troopers on the road but never doing anything or they are the one’s driving with bad behavior, which gives license to all those around them to behave likewise.
“To tax those who have no regard for the law and who are repeat offenders of the law is a better way to pay for the road improvements…”
I agree completely, NoVa Driver.
According to the Washington Post article, the new fines will apply to…
So, the fine really is aimed at the more obnoxious drivers in the area. You’re right, though, that what’s needed in conjunction with this new law is more vigorous enforcement of the laws. Maybe they’ll make so much money with these new fines that they can afford to hire some more troopers.
Frankly I think its ridiculous. Its the legislature’s way of raising money without raising taxes and upsetting their base. And it affects the poor people more because of the repurcussions of not paying.
Here’s an example. You don’t make much money and one day you’re on your way to work and you leave your license at home. Blam, thats a fine. But lets say you can’t afford to pay it at court, well then you lose your license. Now, you can’t drive to work which means you won’t be able to pay that fine because you aren’t making any money. DMV submits the debt to creditors who report it to credit bureaus and now your score suffers. Thats one example off the top of my head.
What if a cop mistakes you for the real RDer his gun picks up and pulls you over and charges you? Don’t think this happens a lot? How about if a pulse gun gets a bad reading on your car and shows RD, think thats fair? Hell even the manufacturers state that their pulse guns are not evidential. They are still used.
It would be one thing if police were always fair, but sometimes people have bad days and take it out on others. Yes, even cops do this. Judges I know would normally just throw this fee out, but guess what? They can’t lower this new civil fee. This means they will have more a tendency to drop the criminal fee which will bleed funding out of our local jurisdictions. Just what we all need!
I tell you what, agree with this new law all you want but when it is found unconstitutional and the state is in the same mess with transportation funding as it currently is (or when judges start throwing out the majority of cases to avoid these excessive fines) I’d like to see how the VA assembly fixes it. Maybe $1000 “registration fees” for pets.
You should go listen to senator Potts speak about this bill and the ridiculousness of it, when he ripped his own party before he left on the floor of the senate back in Feb.
Here’s an excerpt:
“Fee is spelled T – A – X. Now, you know that most-wanted posture that we all made?…My good friends in here that have signed that ‘no tax pledge’. Now lets talk about that ‘no tax pledge’ that they’ve signed. Here we are. Proposed sources: A local rental car impact fee. Not a tax, but a fee. A commercial real-estate assessment. Not a tax…Initial drivers license fee. Not a tax. Congestion relief fee. Not a tax.” He goes on and on, but you can see where these republicans are doing anything they can to make it seem like they are not screwing people out of their money with, heaven forbid, new taxes.
These new penalties are outrageous and have to be that outrageous to compensate for the refusal to raise taxes to pay for our roads.
sweeeeeeeeet! Let’s think about this; what do people currently do while driving when they see someone else get a ticket. They slow down to rubberneck. Now with the likelihood of more people getting tickets and others driving slower (both events) due to these new fines maybe rubbernecking will stop……..yeah and all traffic too.
Totaly and utterly ridiculas !!!! I agree, break the law and pay the fines. I have no problem there but to come back after people and say you, oh by the way you have to pay for those infractions again and for the next three years !!!!!!!!!! Hell why not just make them pay for there fines for the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. It just blows my mind that anybody would accept this laying down. What happens next time they want more money, hhhhmmmm what you had a ticket 10 years ago ?, you have to pay again, and again, and again. If they are allowed to do this there are no boundries, we all better BEWARE !!!!!! It is unconstitutional to make anyone pay for their crimes over and over and over.
First and foremost, it is a tax, and an unfairly applied tax at that, in that all that share the road don’t pay equal burden, only the real and *perceived* scofflaws. Remember, in traffic court, guilty beyond all reasonable doubt does not apply; you have to prove your innocence beyond all doubt.
Second, it is a pure violation of the 8th Amendment of the US Constitution, no excessive fees or punishment, and could easily be argued as a case of double jeopardy, particularly when existing points are used to increase the fine (though this part does help support the premise that the law is designed for repeat offenders.)
Third, the assemblyman that helped create the bill happens to be a traffic trial lawyer. Conflict of interest anyone? Now you will want to higher a lawyer to fight a mere traffic infraction. Mark Twain was right…
Fourth, et al, Will cops be subject to more bribery attempts? Will they be more or even less likely to let you off with a warning? As noted before, sane judges may suspend the fine because the “fee” is so punishing. More people are less likely to pay the fine, if they can’t afford the fee, putting more undocumented drivers on the road. What about parents? Young drivers can’t afford the penalties, so the parents have to. Don’t commit the crime, you say? I have been issued two citations in my life which I did NOT deserve, in one case the cop admitted the mistake but still issued the ticket “because he had already called it in” whatever that means.
Bad law, baaaad law!
First and foremost, it is a tax, and an unfairly applied tax at that, in that all that share the road don’t pay equal burden, only the real and *perceived* scofflaws. Remember, in traffic court, guilty beyond all reasonable doubt does not apply; you have to prove your innocence beyond all doubt.
Second, it is a pure violation of the 8th Amendment of the US Constitution, no excessive fees or punishment, and could easily be argued as a case of double jeopardy, particularly when existing points are used to increase the fine (though this part does help support the premise that the law is designed for repeat offenders.)
Third, the assemblyman that helped create the bill happens to be a traffic trial lawyer. Conflict of interest anyone? Now you will want to higher a lawyer to fight a mere traffic infraction. Mark Twain was right…
Fourth, et al, Will cops be subject to more bribery attempts? Will they be more or even less likely to let you off with a warning? As noted before, sane judges may suspend the fine because the “fee” is so punishing. More people are less likely to pay the fine, if they can’t afford the fee, putting more undocumented drivers on the road. What about parents? Young drivers can’t afford the penalties, so the parents have to. Don’t commit the crime, you say? I have been issued two citations in my life which I did NOT deserve, in one case the cop admitted the mistake but still issued the ticket “because he had already called it in” whatever that means.
And penalizing Virginia residents far more harshly than others is just plain wrong. At least Georgia troopers get their “road tax” from out of staters.
Bad law, baaaad law!
IRT Rebecca Hartong. Do you even live in Northern VA? Get a clue. “Have to be kidding” meant doing 65 mph on Rte 66, not 65 mph in a 66 mph zone. If you lived here you would know that all the State Troopers do up here is prey upon unsuspecting drivers. It’s okay to do 75 mph in rush hour traffic when the roads are clogged and an accident is much more probable but no one is pulled over and for obvious reasons. You don’t want to clog up the roads anymore than they already are in rush hour. However, do 70 mph in a 55 mph when the road is wide open, be prepared to be pulled over. That’s real fair. Just because someone is driving faster, doesn’t mean they are less safe. Reckless to me are people zigging in and out of traffic to get further ahead but not someone on an un-congested road going straight. Like many of the authors before me, this is a ludicrous tax meant to generate more money. I live west of Dulles airport where my daily toll is now $7.00 for the first toll and then an additional $1.50. i.e. $8.50 round trip everyday. (That’s $2210 a year only doing one roundtrip per day during the work week. Don’t you think that should be my contribution to the maintenance of our public roads? And that doesn’t count my wife’s car.) Add that in with the expense of rising fuel costs and then to be potentially at risk with a $1200 fee for driving too fast when everyone does it during rush hour but its disallowed during non-rush hour when the roads are empty and realistically more safe makes no sense. I would be less inclined to be a pain in the ass about this if I knew the police were doing more protect and serve such as eradicating gangs like MS 13 or other crimes. Wake up! Want more money for the roads, then impose a tax and share the burden across the board. At least regular folks who drive a couple miles over don’t get put into a ridiculous circle of financial destitution. Note: I’m not condoning bad drivers, I think this speeding and driving without a license civil penalty is plain stupid and predatory. Enough said…
Actually, yes it IS “real fair” to be pulled over when you’re speeding — regardless of traffic conditions. 55 mph is the speed limit on 66 east of Manassas. Period. Like most people, I do usually drive faster than that when it’s safe to do so. But I always limit my speeding to no more than 10 mph over the posted speed limit. And, hey! Guess what? I’ve NEVER received a speeding ticket. (Though, if I ever do get one, I will accept it without complaint because, after all, speeding even 1 mph over the posted limit is against the law. Period.)
Why do you feel you need to go 70 mph in a 55 mph zone ANYTIME?? If you’re in that much of a hurry, you belong in the back of an ambulance — not behind the wheel of a car. You will be happy to know, though, that you’ll need to be going at least 75 mph in a 55 mph zone to be eligible for that extra fine. Considering your attitude, “No VA Driver”, I suspect that wouldn’t be all that unusual for you.
As far as the police doing more to eradicate gangs, I think you’re the one who needs to wake up. What do you think kills more people in northern Virginia every year: gangs? or speed-related traffic accident deaths??
A lot of people in northern Virginia don’t want to face the simple fact that they drive like complete assholes. They drive more than 10 mph over the speed limit, they tailgate, and they yack away on their FUCKING CELL PHONES while doing all of the above. They put me and everyone else on the road in danger because they’re too god-damned self-involved to pay attention to anything other than their own little desires. They’ve got a huge disconnect between the person they think they are and the way they behave when they’re driving. They think they’re nice guys but, behind the wheel, they turn into aggressive and impatient jerks.
“Have to be kidding” meant doing 65 mph on Rte 66, not 65 mph in a 66 mph zone.
Yeah, I see that now. I mis-read what s/he’d written. Sorry about that!
To me it seems like there is very little difference in fine between reckless and lower speed fine if I read this correctly.
“(d) Other misdemeanors, “Any other misdemeanor conviction for a driving and/or motor vehicle related violation of Title 18.2 or [Title 46.2] that is not included in one of the
preceding three subdivisions”: $300 to the court upon conviction, with two additional
payments of $300 each due to DMV, one within 14 months of conviction and the other
within 26 months of conviction.”
This appears to mean there is only about $150 dollars difference between reckless and a misdemeanor which is just about any other offence you could be charged for since reckless is 3 payments of $350 instead of $300
I always use my signal but I guess I will have to be extra careful it is seen since those points last 11 years on you record. I see were this could help with lane changers but really hate to see this get abused
This undue penalty has no factor about justice about it. Only money.
As a voter and legal resident of Virginia (my family has only been in
Virginia for 372 years, but that doesn’t count anymore) I am among many
southern Virginians who love the idea of State Senator Roscoe Reynolds authoring a bill
any bureaucrat in Richmond could love (and Tim Kaine of course) and then
forgetting his MINOR participation and promulgation of it.
The thing so many folks down here appreciate is the special effort to not offend
all our friends and neighbors south of the border.
I’m not talking about:
North Carolinians
legal Mexicans
Canadians driving back north after a slip trip to Cuba via boat in Florida
What I am talking about is illegal aliens who live in the southern Virginia border counties
but have a paper domicile in North Carolina. For years, from Norfolk to Bristol, these folks
have been exempted from everything (including any scrutiny) already and now have a
free ride when when facing a possible multi-year debt to the state. When localities speak up about doing something Richmond gets on the phone to put a stop to it.
I also have to think it strange it is a worse offense to speed than to
“drink and drive” or be caught as a repeat offender.
To some degree I guess this makes sense to those on the north side of the James though.
I suppose they feel that since they can drink and legislate its no big deal really.
If you go back and look at the votes on “the Bill” you will see the way it was handled
gives most of them an out to say they didn’t support “this or that” but in the end it was a “compromise”.
The compromise is legitimate Virginians right to representation of their own interests.
Jesus gives a telling example to Peter about such things when confronted about “tribute” recorded in Matthews gospel.
“24″: And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, “Doth not your master pay tribute?
“25″: He saith, “Yes”. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, “What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? Of their own children, or of strangers?”
“26″: Peter saith unto him, “Of strangers.” Jesus saith unto him, “Then are the children free.”
“27″: “Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
I think historically we see this was true for every kingdom and country.
From what we see coming out Washington and Richmond these days it is clear those who have worked long and hard and have built what is America, are now mearly chattal of the State now to provide labor for a new feudal realm.